joefromchicago
You proved my point about religion it is based on myth and supposition and revision. Because Jesus as the story goes was unjustly put to death he must have been against capital punishment for all. That is of course a recent interpretation and a reawakening considering how many people the Catholic Church condemned to death over the centuries. IMO the banning of capital punishment for religious reasons has no basis.
I think of the big focus on forgiveness--and the Biblical teaching that we will be forgiven by Christ at our judgement, in the same manner that we forgave others...
The pre-empted legal murder of the famous adulteress... Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
Do unto others...
The Prodigal son...used up his inheritance, and by man's standards, should be left with nothing, but was welcomed back, with full benefits...
The New Testament is full of stories that, to me, repudiate our basic desire for revenge. And, isn't revenge the primary motive for CP? Some would say it is logical to kill a person, who would be an expensive expenditure in prison. Isn't money an even more inhuman reason to kill someone?
Our nature DOES want revenge--I feel it, too. But, I think it is clear--if we stop denying our revenge motive, we can see that CP cannot be reconciled with Christianity.
In my religion, as it has translated to my soul, though WE place levels of value on different sins (crimes), Christ places one value on sin. He said if you kill your brother in your heart--wish him dead--you are guilty of murder. Thankfully, the earthly law has not quite subscribed to the Minority Report mentality--and we aren't swooped down upon and arrested for "wishing" murder or rape.
But, if we accept this as Christ's manner of defining sin, we see that in His view, the murderers aren't so much worse than we are-- If we are indeed seeking His direction, we cannot hold them out for CP, as we are equally guilty in His eyes.
Not trying to convince, but fleshing out my opinion.
Sophia
As always I respect your opinion. I just cannot reconcile it with the Churches recent awakening. As for it being revenge or let's call it paying for ones crimes. That of course is the motive. I just am unwilling to wait in the hope of God's punishment. In addition for those who base their beliefs upon the bible consider this "An eye for an eye"
I respect your opinions, too, au.
Continuing your line an eye for an eye--
When I've had this conversation with Christian members of my family--who ALL support CP--it has been odd to me that on most other Biblical/political issues, they foist the OT teachings and traded them for Christ's updated teachings--except for an eye for an eye. In my view, they do this to "find" an excuse to hold to their CP opinion.
I could understand why a Jewish person would do this. They don't follow Jesus as Christ. But, why a Christian would reach back into the OT for this nugget confounds me.
Sofia
Consider this. The OT is as much a part of Christianity as the NT. Picture the OT as the foundation and the NT the edifice built upon it or the OT being chapter one and the NT chapter two. And that is true for all forms of Christianity. As for interpretation each sect has it's own.
As For Jesus he was born a Jew and died a Jew and never to my knowledge repudiated the OT. Remember Christianity evolved some time after the death of Christ and the NT some time after that. The basic concept still is nestled in the OT.
Where for instance is the Ten Commandments to be found?
au1929 wrote:joefromchicago
You proved my point about religion it is based on myth and supposition and revision.
It proves nothing of the sort.
au1929 wrote:Because Jesus as the story goes was unjustly put to death he must have been against capital punishment for all.
No, we can presume that he was against capital punishment because such a stance would have been consistent with his other teachings (as
Sofia points out). We do not know if Jesus had some piquant comments about the death penalty as he was hanging from the cross. His crucifixion, however, should serve as an object lesson to Christians regarding the potential unjustness of capital punishment.
au1929 wrote:That is of course a recent interpretation and a reawakening considering how many people the Catholic Church condemned to death over the centuries. IMO the banning of capital punishment for religious reasons has no basis.
That the current stance of the Catholic church on capital punishment is contrary to prior practice is not in doubt. But to say that this inconsistency is proof that the current stance has no basis in religion is unwarranted.
Au--
You have a point. Craven has reminded me that Jesus didn't say He came to abolish the Law, but IMO, when one looks at the balance of Jesus' life, and words-- CP does not seem like something He would support.
But, I've said enough.
<peaceful withdrawal>
Joe
Quote:That the current stance of the Catholic church on capital punishment is contrary to prior practice is not in doubt. But to say that this inconsistency is proof that the current stance has no basis in religion is unwarranted.
The current stance is just that the "current" stance. There is no basis for that stance other than it being considered to be a barbaric and inhumane process. To say it is and always has be prohibited by religion, any religion is pure and simple revisionism.
As for what Jesus thought about it, if indeed he did, I have no Idea, one can assume whatever makes them comfortable. However, assumption and conjecture does not always lead us to the truth.
