hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 02:49 pm
the most rigorously controlled labs in the US are closed because of a recent slew of failures of quarantine procedures. I am not in favor of importing Ebola to the US under any circumstances.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 03:22 pm
Here's part 3 of 6, sorry to keep scaring some of you into voting it down, but try to face up to it like men if you can..
Pt 3: Some of the main characters get the plague, things are definitely getting serious now..

roger
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 04:35 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Maybe somebody objects to citing a show as a reference.
luismtzzz
 
  5  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 04:56 pm
@roger,
I think that it was on behalf of the health of the doctors the reason to take them to US. I mean, it is in fact a disease with a huge mortality rate. They were not just in a 3rd world country. There are 3rd world countries in development (where you can find excellent medical care) and undeveloped countries.

Those doctors have families waiting home. they were offering their knowledge and risking their lives to help those in need on a remote jungle place half across the world. They deserved better treatment. It could not be provided on Africa.

If i where on the position to decide how to help two coworkers that contracted ebola and there is a chance to reduce their mortality risks from 60-90 % to at least 10 or 20% i would take it blindfolded. because in the process of saving those men there is also the´possibility to discover a way to help tousands more in Africa. The opportunity is huge.

CDC are pros in what they are. They are internationally respected. They have some of the most badass infectology laboratories in the world. I trust CDC, it was the correct decision for fellow doctors.

We doctors every day risk our lives on the risks of contagion. I worked on a ER in a ublic hospital during the swine flu outbrake in Mexico. We had 2 floors filled with positive patients. I tried to save patients that where on pulmonar failure do to the infection. At least 10 members of the medteam caught the disease. A young man of 36 years old that only was moderatedly obeses died on my hands. The whole team recived profilactic treatment.

I know what is to work on an outbrake.

Those men are heroes and deserve respect and the right to recive the best of the best treatment of the world. If they where your brother, your parent your son you surely will be pledging for them to be brought home to recive the best medical care that US can provide.

And BTW if there is an ebola outbrake it will not come on a CDC plane. It will come on a commercial airline. And by logic the more common places for this to start would be mediterranen countries and mid east. So if you want to get paranoid check international news.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 05:43 pm
@luismtzzz,
Yes. I do wonder why you replied to my post which expressed skepticism to citing what I supposed is a television series. Fiction is seldom a valid citation of fact.
luismtzzz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 05:52 pm
@roger,
Sorry roger. My bad.

I read the whole thread since i just get caught in it and wasn´t carefull to post directly to Finn since he was the one who initiated it.

I wil be more carefull in the future.

And BTW i agree with you, fiction is a great way to help our imagination wild and have fun imagine situation "what if...". But use it as a fact is nonsense.

Most fiction tv series have many scientifical plot holes. They are great for entertain and just for that. Just look what happened to the swine flu, many conspitrational jerks here in my country imagined an end of the world when the outbrake begun, but at the we are still here anyways. FB was flooded with quotes of people saying that Obama brought it to Mexico since he came to meet our current president the weekend previous to the outbrake.

I think those people have seen to many spy movies, and conspirational thrillers.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 05:55 pm
@luismtzzz,
Quote:
If i where on the position to decide how to help two coworkers that contracted ebola and there is a chance to reduce their mortality risks from 60-90 % to at least 10 or 20% i would take it blindfolded.


super, but the facts here are that the death rate is running at 55%, and there is no evidence that the experimental (and super expensive) med this lab rat was given ups his chances.

Quote:
Those doctors have families waiting home. they were offering their knowledge and risking their lives to help those in need on a remote jungle place half across the world. They deserved better treatment.
these people who go to work Ebola epidemics sign up for the risk. It has never been done that Ebola was purposefully imported to the USA, these people could not have had the expectation that it would be done now.

Quote:
CDC are pros in what they are. They are internationally respected. They have some of the most badass infectology laboratories in the world. I trust CDC,
that makes you an idiot.
luismtzzz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 06:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
Say what you want but CDC is an international medical authority in their speciality. They are a medical reference and publish treatment guides and protocols that are respected worldwide. Also they have the resources most countries do not have to do their job.

No laboratory in my country has even half the expertise quality nor the laboratories to compare.

Mexican health system followed CDC help to control swine flu outbrake with scarse resources and limited quantity odf doctors, and we contained it. So i really respect CDC.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 06:10 pm
An article re some knowledgeable people who were wearing biohazard suits, and what they faced... a different scale of horror.

This article isn't very long and is part of the worry reasoning. I'm still for the doctor and nurse helper coming back to the u.s., and grew more for it when I found out about their having the experimental drug, and after what farmerman said about the (present) 'reservoirs' for the virus - but I still hold my breath re when the patients arrive in or at the edge of the contagious stage.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/08/11/outbreak

I think I'll just add it -

Kenema Postcard AUGUST 11, 2014 ISSUE
Outbreak
BY RICHARD PRESTON

This spring in West Africa, a muttering emergence of the Zaire species of Ebola virus turned explosive. As of this writing, more than thirteen hundred cases of Ebola-virus disease have been officially reported in Guinea, Sierra Leone, and Liberia. The virus is spreading, uncontrolled, in widening chains of infection, which include cities—something never seen before. In Liberia, parts of the medical system have effectively collapsed. Some hospitals and clinics have been abandoned, while others have become choked with Ebola patients. The hospitals of Monrovia, the capital of Liberia, are full of Ebola patients and are turning away new patients, including women in childbirth. American Ebola experts in Monrovia are hearing reports that infected bodies are being left in the streets: the outbreak is beginning to assume a medieval character. People sick with Ebola are leaving Monrovia and going into the countryside to search for village faith healers, or to stay with relatives. In Sierra Leone, in the town of Kenema, eighteen doctors and nurses who had been working in the Lassa/Ebola ward have contracted Ebola, and at least five have died. They had been working in biological-hazard suits, yet they got sick anyway. People are wondering if the virus could spread to Europe or the United States, but the more immediate question is whether it could infect a whole lot more people in Africa.

A particle of Ebola-Zaire virus is made of only ten proteins, locked together in what looks like a tangle of string. Despite its extreme simplicity as an organism, when Ebola strikes a human it becomes a killing machine, the biological equivalent of a steel axe. The virus is transmitted from one person to the next through contact with blood or other bodily fluids. The symptoms of the disease start out looking like those of malaria: the patient runs a fever and feels weak. Ebola patients proceed to vomiting and diarrhea, which sometimes turns black; and they can develop hiccups. Fewer than half the patients in this outbreak have shown signs of hemorrhage: pinpoint droplets of blood can sometimes glisten on the rims of the eyelids. Around sixty per cent of the victims have died.

In July, as the outbreak gathered force, Daniel Bausch, an American doctor and Ebola expert, arrived in Freetown, Sierra Leone, and proceeded on to the Lassa/Ebola ward in Kenema, a facility that he helped set up. The hospital is a cluster of small cinder-block buildings in the center of town. He put on personal protective equipment, known as P.P.E.—a type of biohazard gear that consists of a Tyvek whole-body suit, a Tyvek hood with an opening for the eyes, safety goggles, a breathing mask over the mouth and nose, two pairs of nitrile gloves, a plastic apron, and rubber boots—and he walked into one of the Ebola wards, a makeshift structure with walls made of plastic film. There he found the director, Dr. Sheik Humarr Khan, and a nurse wearing biohazard suits and taking care of thirty Ebola patients. “The floor was splashed with blood, vomitus, feces, and urine,” Bausch said recently. Patients in the throes of Ebola often fall out of bed. “You need a whole team to decontaminate the bed and lift the patient up off the floor and put him safely back in bed.” Khan and the nurse were overwhelmed.

Some Ebola nurses had stopped coming to work: they had been working twelve-hour days, in biohazard suits, and they were supposed to be earning an extra thirty dollars a week in hazard pay, but the government of Sierra Leone had not provided it. Not unreasonably, many nurses had stopped showing up.

Last month, Joseph Fair, an American doctor who had worked in the ward, arrived to help in Kenema. He considered Khan one of his best friends, and told me that he regarded the chief nurse, a woman in her fifties named Mbalu Sankoh, who’d helped run the Kenema ward for twenty-five years, “as more or less a mom to me.” He embraced Mbalu when they met, and he warmly greeted another old friend, a senior nurse named Alex Moigboi.

Two days after Fair’s arrival, Nurse Mbalu developed a fever. She placed herself in a bed in the Kenema hospital and gave herself an I.V. drip, and told people that she thought she had malaria. Eight days later, she died. Since he had embraced her, Dr. Fair began testing his blood for Ebola virus. Alex Moigboi died shortly afterward.

For weeks, Dr. Fair has been going to funerals in Kenema. “I just couldn’t keep it together at Mbalu’s funeral,” he said last week. He was in Freetown, and had just returned from the funeral of Dr. Khan. “The ones who have passed are the only ones who would go into the Ebola ward,” Fair said. “Now we have a huge void.” He recounted how Dr. Khan, as he lay dying in the ward he had run for ten years, had whispered to a fieldworker, “James, I am going. You have to carry on.”
Romeo Fabulini
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 08:08 pm
@roger,
You bunch of dumb yank rednecks, Survivors would have given you valuable hints how to survive a plague, it was a smash hit show and ran to 38 episodes..Smile
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 08:21 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
in the town of Kenema, eighteen doctors and nurses who had been working in the Lassa/Ebola ward have contracted Ebola, and at least five have died.
nicely illustrating the stupidity of importing this virus to the USA, on purpose.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 08:22 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
I'm beginning to feel better about that Y2K stuff I bought cheap. I was afraid I would have to hold onto it until Y3K. Ebola zombies. Anybody want a generator?
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 08:30 pm
@luismtzzz,
We all do it from time to time. It's nothing. I guess I just wanted to restate my opinion of resorting to such a source.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 09:03 pm
I am not an expert in this field, but I wonder if it is time to conclude that this mutation infects more easily than previous versions, but it is less lethal. I think I should have seen something in journalism on this by now, as this would be a serious turn of events. If Ebola is not to be confined to rural poor black Africa, if this looks to become global, we have a serious ******* problem.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 09:23 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
You bunch of dumb yank rednecks, Survivors would have given you valuable hints how to survive a plague, it was a smash hit show and ran to 38 episodes..Smile

Some people vote down just to cause trouble. I got a slew of vote-downs merely for complaining that the supervolcano posts were beginning to outnumber the Ebola posts.

I gave you a vote up on the posts you were voted down on. I'm not going to watch those videos through my dialup connection though.
0 Replies
 
lararodriguez
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 09:51 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Safety protocols are very ncessary. Chances cannot be taken. You cannot stop people from entering US, but yes you can always take precautions.
0 Replies
 
luismtzzz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Aug, 2014 10:55 pm
@ossobuco,
First this Ebola strain still can't cross a plastic barrier. Those medical personnel where contaminated outside the ebola wards. Obviously by asymptomatic patients in carrier state.

Second this particular strain may be transmitted threw a mechanism not considered before. There are suspicions on the web of contagion via flugge droplets. Flugge droplets are microscopic aerolized drops of respiratory fluids that became airborne while coughing or sneezing. Their are the way for flu contagion. Since the virus is very heat sensitive it will require still a high humidity environment and very close contact to survive the ride via flugge. The overall contagion mechanism is still not fully understood so this could be likely.

Also general sanitary condition on Guinea and Sierra Leone are really bad. The reports of terribly disposed bodies are numerous. The lack of clean water is frequent. People prefer to use it for consumption than for washing hands. The number of specialized personel is low and payrolls are bad. The wards are under equipped. It is no amazing the high death toll of the disease.

However appropriate sanitary measures, contact isolation, strict humid climate requirements, regulated body disposal, etc. Could efficiently limit the spread of such disease on a better equipped informed and prepared society like US or in Europe. Even here on my country.

In general arid zones of the planet are relatively safe.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Aug, 2014 09:42 am
@luismtzzz,
I didn't know about arid places being safest, but that makes perfect sense. I did know about the airborne possibility for tranmission, mentioned it earlier in this thread.

Yes, the health workers could have picked it up outside the ward, though those in the article who worked together died right around the same time. Maybe one of the people picked it up outside, and then transmitted it to the other workers at some meeting outside the biohazard rooms.

I don't know their protocols for getting out of the biohazard suits but figure they had them, but I can see the problem somehow happening when leaving the ward(s) too, somehow right at the exit system.

Or, as you say, all of them picked it up outside separately... around the same time.

I do remember a lab accident I heard about back in my lab days. It's not really relevant because the virus was hepatitis C, but contains a lesson. In a nearby hospital research lab, a tech dropped one or more vials, and not too long later died of hep C. People in our department knew her, I'd met her once too. What's relevant is that they no doubt had protocols in that lab but human error happened. This was in the seventies and protocols are tighter, for sure, but human error still occurs.


One more thought - I read that the woman who is being treated at Emory worked at the checkout of the ward area. Relevance? I dunno.
0 Replies
 
Lacy456
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2014 07:27 pm
@rosborne979,
Ebola Virus is very scary. It can affects anyone. Take good care of your health everyone.
0 Replies
 
luismtzzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Aug, 2014 11:05 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
http://i.imgur.com/3dDUrkB.jpg
 

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