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The verdict: no more babies for you!

 
 
Reply Mon 17 May, 2004 08:41 am
No-baby ruling sets off storm of debate

Judge's move to end 'cycle of neglect' resonates worldwide.



(ROCHESTER, N.Y.: May 15, 2004) ?- A Monroe County Family Court judge's order that a cocaine-addicted and often-homeless mother not have any more children until she can take care of four she already has stirred debate beyond Rochester.

Judge Marilyn L. O'Connor's ruling, disclosed last week, sought to break a "cycle of neglect" of children and reduce the cost of caring for the children of unfit parents. The ruling is considered the first of its kind in the nation.

"There seems to be a lot of buzz in the legal community," said Barbara deLeeuw, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Rochester. "I have not gotten one bit of work done this week. The phone has been ringing off the hook. It's percolated all the way up to the national media."

Several major newspapers ran the story, including USA Today, The Washington Times and the Chicago Tribune. It was also published in newspapers in Sydney, Australia, and in the United Kingdom.

The story appeared all day last Saturday on CNN and MSNBC. It was also a staple on local television stations across New York, the Northeast and places such as Fort Wayne, Ind.

"All babies deserve more than to be born to parents who have proven they cannot possibly raise or parent a child," O'Connor wrote in a 12-page opinion. "This neglected existence is an immense burden to place on a child and on society. The cycle of neglect … needs to stop."

O'Connor did not return a call Friday for comment.

Identified in court papers only as Stephanie P., the 35-year-old mother was charged with prostitution in April. A bench warrant was later issued when she failed to appear in Drug Treatment Court. Family members said Thursday that the woman is pregnant with her fifth child.

The woman apparently became pregnant in mid-March before O'Connor's no-pregnancy order took effect.

The father of two of the four children, Rodney Evers Sr., also was ordered to have no more children until he can care for them. He said the couple has struggled for years to find work and shelter and both have admitted in court to abusing drugs and alcohol.

Evers, an admitted cocaine addict who stays periodically at the House of Mercy shelter for the homeless, described O'Connor's judgment as demeaning.

"I can't abide by something like that," said Evers, 54, his gaunt face and graying goatee shaded by a baseball cap. "I know for a fact that God said ?'be fruitful and multiply.' This is telling me I have to be celibate. Man cannot play God."

Phyllis Collier, executive director of the Perinatal Network of Monroe County, said balancing the rights of every child to be free from harm and neglect vs. balancing the right of a woman or couple to choose when to have a child, is "a real dilemma and a hard choice."

"When does the child's rights take precedence over a woman or couple's right to choose (to have a child)?" Collier asks. "For anyone who feels strongly about individual rights and free choice, this is just an impossible conundrum to be in."

But lawyer Brian J. Barney of Rochester, chairman of the Family Law Section of the New York State Bar Association, agrees with the ruling.

"It's her (O'Connor's) attempt to create some public dialogue and address some of the horrible issues she faces every day," Barney said. "Everybody who is against the ruling is totally focused on an absolute right to procreate whether you act responsibly or not."

Rochester lawyer James S. Hinman said a large part of the problem is that society has failed to financially support programs that help people overcome the problems that these parents face.

Hinman said the ruling wrongly thrusts the court into judicial activism. "We have the court going into people's bedrooms and telling them what they can and cannot do."

Shelley Page, a spokeswoman from Planned Parenthood of the Rochester/Syracuse Region, said the organization's position on Judge O'Connor's ruling is a simple one.

"The decision about whether and when to bear a child is a personal and private decision," Page said.

Hinman said the ruling is "like shooting ducks in a pond," because neither the mother, who waived her right to a lawyer, nor the father appeared for the trial. "They were defenseless. There was nobody there to defend them."

O'Connor's ruling is resonating on the streets of Rochester.

"The only way that I would agree with that order is if the person is HIV positive and on drugs and then they go out there and get pregnant deliberately ?- when they know they put that baby at risk ?- then I think they need to come up with some type of law where they would be prosecuted," Pastor Joy Powell said Friday, in front of God's Holy Outreach Ministry on West Main Street. "Other than that it is totally ludicrous."

"I just don't see anybody having the authority to tell somebody that they can't have any more children. … It's a God-given right to procreate," said Cornelius Gaines. "Yet, something needs to be done, so what do we do?"

"She found a clever solution ?- maybe," said Rebecca Penneys, a piano instructor at the Eastman School of Music. "It certainly will get a lot of attention, and that's good. Then maybe people will think about how many children they should have and if they are ready to have children."

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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2004 09:23 am
Although in my opinion the judges ruling will not stand he IMO is on the right track. As long as these people are on the public dole and the taxpaying public is forced to pay the freight after the deed is done they should have the right intervene.
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
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Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 07:19 am
Shades of Buck vs. Bell. See http://www.dnalc.org/resources/buckvbell.html for a quick summary.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 08:37 am
jespah wrote:
Shades of Buck vs. Bell.

Jespah, I was thinking the exact same thing. "The cycle of neglect … needs to stop" sounds a lot like "three generations of idiots is enough."

So, do you think this is any different from a forced sterilization case?
0 Replies
 
Relative
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 08:44 am
I think the amount of money this is supposed to save (the money that would go into child care!), is well balanced in the amount of time&money lost in the case, following suits, debates spawned, and people dying of heart attacks enraged by the ruling.

Relative.
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 08:57 am
Well, joe, about the only thing that's different is that allegedly this isn't permanent loss of opportunities to have children. However, the biological clock would say otherwise, if this woman is prevented from having kids for a long enough period of time.

It's also (and this is more a function of the mechanics of the two genders) sexually discriminatory, as it will be obvious if the woman is having more kids, but not so obvious if the man is. Kudos to the court for attempting to make the ruling gender-neutral, but biology dictates otherwise.

It's disturbing to me. I can see Relative' and au's point, and I'm certainly not interested in paying more $$ for the care of more wards of the state, if that's at all possible, but in the absence of a finding of incompetency, having children is a fundamental right of adults. Would the court force an abortion on this woman? Have a pharmacist or doctor force-feed her a morning after pill? The implications are frightening.

Three generations of idiots are enough, indeed. Sure, but there are far less intrusive means of dealing with this problem. How about mandating that these people visit doctors in order to explore birth control options, including stuff like Depo Provera? Either that, or declare both parents incompetent. It's this half-measure that gives me the willies.
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onyxelle
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 09:13 am
jespah wrote:
Either that, or declare both parents incompetent.


the court would have to get doctor's to evaluate the defendants in this case and find them incompetent to do that. It's not something you can just 'declare' from the bench.

ordering birth control presents the same problems you mentioned jespah -how do you know if the man is using it?

this is another of those situations that i think the sort of thing was done, but maybe not exactly - but I don't have a real solution.
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 11:02 am
Well, I don't love either solution I'm proposing, and inherently all of it's gender discriminatory. And of course you're right, a declaration of incompetence would require a hearing with expert testimony. The main thing I'm getting at (rather badly, I can see) is that I think more safeguards would be in place if the judge had to work harder, and had to prove more and meet a higher standard. And I don't like the chipping away at rights when it comes to people who are otherwise considered to be competent or at least haven't yet been declared to be incompetent.

After all, if these people aren't allowed to have any more kids (at least for a time period to be determined), why should they be considered to be competent enough to, I dunno, pay taxes, hold drivers' licenses, take out loans, etc.?
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 11:06 am
interesting
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 11:20 am
jespah: I commend your latest posts: you raise some very interesting issues, upon which I must, for the nonce, silently cogitate.
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 12:14 pm
Jespah--

Well spoken.


I notice no one has suggested allowing the Mama and Papa here to have custody of their brood and raise them as best they can. We have to be fair to these carelessly spawned children.

Meanwhile, most middle-class families here in the US have one or two children--and stop.

Bribery with controlled substances is illegal....but tempting.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 02:28 pm
Quote:
Meanwhile, most middle-class families here in the US have one or two children--and stop.


That is because they have to pay the bill. People like this and I would include welfare mothers{not all] are getting a free ride. Is there a solution? Of course there is however, this so called humane society would never allow it.
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2004 07:34 pm
I think he made a good choice (after reading everyone's arguments). Forced sterilization would be absolutely horrible in my opinion. It would be entirely inhumane. However, I think it's sad that anyone who wants to is allowed to have children. Of course, there's nothing you can do about it. Take it the extreme--what if only christians with bachelors degrees were allowed to mate. I think there is a line, but it is not necessarily meant to be specified. Tear me apart.
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