essay problems

It sounds like it is a case of the teacher being what I like to call an "idiot." Perhaps the word "stupid" would better apply to your teacher. If you're unfamiliar with those words go look them up, you'll find that they apply very well.
I recall when I was in first grade someone smeared a sandwich on the table at lunch, and some teacher came and saw it, and said everyone had to stay at the table until someone admitted to making the mess. none of us had, it had been there when we got there, but eventually one of us took the blame so we could go. I think that's mighty big of a first-grader. In fact, it shows he was less stuborn than the teacher.

I realize that doesn't help, I'm not suggesting you let the teacher know it was innapropriate, but it doesn't sound like your fault at all.

I'm having trouble with the phrase in your story about your classmates' "...reading books and calling out." What exactly was going on? Thanks. -rjb-

well... people were reading books, like novels during class while the teacher was speaking. calling out...well that just means people were talking w/o raising their hands (there was also alot of side conversation going on)

another slight problem with the teacher... we were going to do the play, and after today's behavior, she threatened to take it away. I gave her the book with the script so she could look at it.... she just better have the book tomorrow

giant, she sounds bitter... i don't know how old you are, but any good teacher takes into account that school aged kids need guidence, they don't need to be threatened. maybe you and your classmates were out of line, who knows, but whatever you did sounds minor... in my opinion, if you're not carrying weapons and trying to kill one another then you're healthy and normal.

i say write what you want in your essay-- even if you feel like you may get in trouble... i'm not saying be rude, or swear, just be truthful. if you feel she is wrong, then say so...

Yes, i can agree with that. If you very politely explain why she acted inappropriately... well, heck, that just sounds fun to do, doesn't it? I don't know her well, though, so think out how she would take it. (It is a female teacher, right?)

As an exercise in leadership, the teacher is demanding your complete attention. If there were more than one disturbing influence., I dont think she acted inapropriately at all. Youll find out later in life, that fairness isnt what its about. Since the students started acting up and she wants control back, just do the "time" and move on. Quit whining

Also, I think we should all write farmerman letters, explaining the inappropriateness of his remarks. Shame on him. Control freak, really.

I teach each year. Its at the graduate level and I never have a control problem. These students have earned the right to openly debate, interrupt, and otherwise act as colleagues. That does not, in any fashion, translate to the grade school or junior high level. If the kids run the room , who learns anything? Thats why she is called a TEACHER. Im amazed that she lost control in the first place..

Now you stop whining or Ill rat you out to be the prepubescent you are.

I'M NOT WHINING !I'M NOT WHINING !I'M NOT WHINING!

Hey, giant, tell farmer I'm not talking to him, because I don't want it to seem like I'm whining!

I totally agree with Farmerman. The class, not the teacher, was in the wrong. A great deal of effort goes into preparing lessons intended to teach a subject. Classes are intended to facilitate the transmittal of knowledge, not for the discussion of teenage angst. Fail to pay attention, and expect to pay some penalty. One of the lessons you are supposed to be learning is to respect and obey those in authority over you.

Your behavior is tantamount to proclaiming that you know more than your teacher(s) and the society that has determined that you require lessons in a variety of subjects. You may believe the subjects boring or irrelevant, but you are mostly wrong. You are certainly wrong if you think you know more, and better than the teachers hired to ASSIST in providing you with the fundamentals of an education.

I suggest you write your essay(s), and pay attention in class from now on.

Part of the problem is the impossibility of the assignment. The assignment was to write why they think that behavior was appropriate, when in fact they do not. It is degrading. Secondly the teacher is punishing the entire class, when not everyone was at fault. And lastly, the teacher let her temper get the better of her, which influenced the decision. If she were acting calmly or wisely, and if perhaps the assignment were given to improve their knowledge or thought processes, rather than out of revenge, then it would be entirely appropriate. But throwing in her irrationality, the occasion reeks of immaturity, and I'm not speaking of the students.

asherman, respect and obey? as in, never question authority? are you working for the bush adminstration?

first of all, we're talking about kids here-- it is the responsibiltiy of the teacher to enforce rules, no doubt about that. however, clearly, this teacher does not know how to control a class-- and if the kids resent her, then what good is that?

farmerman, too rigid-- kids are not little soldiers, yes, they get out of line, but there is an inner world in there, not just beings that has to follow authority without questioning it.

if pizza is pissed off, then he/she is pissed off, regardless of whether he or she is in the wrong or right--

To assume the worst about the teacher may be true, but not necessarily. We know very little here, only what is given by a disgruntled student. Indeed, the student's poor writing skill reduces their credibility. Not knowing what went on it the classroom, or what went before, makes it difficult to judge the appropriateness of the assignment. One suspects that the teacher didn't suddenly lose control of their classroom, but has been struggling to get their attention since the first day of class. Trying to get and keep the attention of a classroom filled with captive adolescent students, even for the most important and interesting lessons, is something like herding cats on the open range. "Did you see what Patty was wearing when Guy came off the football field? Who's interested in what some dead guy did a hundred years ago?" We seem to have raised a generation, perhaps several generations, of children to believe that discipline is a nasty word. Parents too often take the easy way out and try to "buy" familial tranquility by letting children do what they want, when they want and even provide the cash. In the classroom it isn't surprising that such children are inattentive and disruptive especially when the subject is difficult and even abstruse. Even worse, many teachers are using textbooks chosen by a Board of Education that perhaps failed this course when they were teenagers. However, it is just as reasonable to suppose that the teacher in this case was calm, collected and knew exactly what they were doing.

If the class was largely inattentive and disrespectful, then assigning a punishment essay to the entire class makes perfect sense. The assignment is also going to cost the teacher, because they now have extra 25-35 papers to read and grade. That the teacher was willing to take on that extra burden is some evidence that they still care about whether the class learns something.

As to the assertion that the assignment is "impossible", wrong. Of course, it would be easier to ask the students to write about why their behavior was wrong. In their hearts, the class felt that they were justified in their unacceptable behavior; otherwise they wouldn't have behaved that way. Without much thought even the worst student could probably grind out six pages of platitudes. By requiring the students to justify their behavior there is a chance that they may have to actually think. If the student ponders the question, perhaps they may arrive at an understanding of the truths behind the platitudes. Acquiring an education isn't easy, it requires thought, dedication and discipline. The teacher may well have seized upon this opportunity to push the students into self-examination. For all we know, this may be the best lesson that the class will receive during the semester … I hope not, but the class sure doesn't sound like they are going to learn much if the situation isn't addressed.

Gala,

Yes, respect and obey. Within the classroom the teacher is in charge, not the students. "Never question authority?" I didn't say that, nor should it be inferred. As students acquire information it is important that they question what it means, and how will fit into their intellectual toolbox. Teachers generally encourage questions, especially from students whose interest and efforts to master the subject matter is evident. However, even in graduate seminars the teacher is entitled to respect and obedience within the classroom, and relative to the subject being taught.

Kids? Kids as young as 13 lived as productive, independent adults not so very long ago. Kids can be capable of a lot, but not if they are coddled. Hamilton and Burr were Princeton graduates at about the same age as these students who are unable to focus for an hour. We live in a more enlightened age, where we extend childhood sometimes up to the age of 35, or so. At what age should one be responsible for their own behavior? That the kids might resent the teacher is irrelevant, they are there to learn not be charmed. One of the best teachers I ever had, I hated to depths of my being, but I sure did learn basic Geometry. A college professor insisted that to speak the student had to be first recognized, then stand straight and provide the class with background details (book referenced and page) before asking a question. Sometimes we would be standing there sweating out the Q&A for five minutes, but we sure did learn the importance of academic rigor.

No, I don't work for the Bush administration, but I do support the policies that the federal government is currently pursuing. I regard myself as a Federalist; what was good enough for Washington and Adams still seems good to me. Currently, the Republican Party, in my opinion, comes closest to the ideals that motivated the framers of the Constitution.

I agree with this statement:

As to the assertion that the assignment is "impossible", wrong. Of course, it would be easier to ask the students to write about why their behavior was wrong. In their hearts, the class felt that they were justified in their unacceptable behavior; otherwise they wouldn't have behaved that way. Without much thought even the worst student could probably grind out six pages of platitudes. By requiring the students to justify their behavior there is a chance that they may have to actually think. If the student ponders the question, perhaps they may arrive at an understanding of the truths behind the platitudes. Acquiring an education isn't easy, it requires thought, dedication and discipline. The teacher may well have seized upon this opportunity to push the students into self-examination. For all we know, this may be the best lesson that the class will receive during the semester … I hope not, but the class sure doesn't sound like they are going to learn much if the situation isn't addressed.

But I doubt that is what it was intended to do. Your proposal is possible, but I still find it unlikely she was collected, and the assignment was meant to be thought-provoking. I had considered all of your points when I responded, and I must admit that "impossible" was a poor word choice. I also agree that they have likely been acting inappropriately for some time, but I never advocate this sort of control. She will merely make the students resent her, and become less open to her opinions, and more critical of her methods.

if you're going to be a leader, it requires knowing approaches to leading. college students, epecially grad students understand the art of sucking up, while kids have not. kids will test any situation to see how far they can go. if the teacher cannot control her class, then it says more about her than her students.

An interesting thing is appearing. Asherman and I are in perfect agreement. Scoates and gigantic piazza also agree. This forum is a great "leveler" wherein our arguments are separated from the arguer 's face, age and race. Asherman and I see the value of order and discipline in a classroom. Perhaps its borne of experience. There is but one authority in the class. The mere act of disrespect by ignoring the instructor and engaging in conversations not related to the stated purpose of the class, is rude and childish in itself. If you dont see that point then you will miss Asherman's totally

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Gala, You say Im too rigid? The process of engaging in a loud debate and questioning the subject at hand is honorable . Its a way of learning. However, youre being totally disingenuous in your comments because the students were NOT engaged in anything that approached an intellectual " slap down" They were just being little children , nervously expending Brownian energy by talking about nothing important and totally ignoring the teacher. Giant... even states that clearly in the opening. So jumping to reinforce Giants... argument misses the entire basis of the thread.
I invite healthy disagreement and healthy debate in my classes.I often take a point that is indefensible just to be talked down and shown the error of my way.. However, the argument approach assumes a basic competence in the subjects discussed.
However, one thing, I will not be totally ignored and talked around while I hold the "chalk". I know my subject better than anyone else in the room.My job is to assist developing researchers gain a basis from my work , so they can go on and go even higher

So , if I were a teacher in this " Mrs Krabapples "case, Id do about the same as she. Except Id make the theme be based on some arcane section of the lesson that the kiddies so rudely ignored.Then Id have the students exchange papers and have them grade the others work . Then my grade on this assignment would be based upon how well the students corrections were made not the original theme .
See, anyone can write a fairly cohesive and intelligent theme by transcription from the web. However, having one student correct the work of another, in class will "out" those who never paid attention in the first place.


GIANT... did you decide on an approach to the assignment?

farmerman, i could argue that you have missed the entire basis of the thread. what good is knowing a lot more than anyone else if you are unable to hold their attention? pizza is not in active pursuit of knowledge, he/she is being pursued by hormones, and the teacher needs to take this into account.

It is the student's responsibility to apply themselves to learning the lessons. A good student will learn from the worst teacher, and the best teacher has no culpability when a student does not apply themselves.

I think you do youth a disservice by excusing their failures as being due to their tender ages, or that the teacher is somehow to blame. Learning comes from "pushing the edges of the envelop", not endless pampering and catering to a students resistance to hard work. When a student discovers that they can master a difficult subject or skill, their confidence in themselves gets a great boost. If they fail, they will learn the value of persistence. By not requiring the highest standards of students, the lesson learned is that mediocrity and quitting are acceptable.

Not all teachers are equally skilled in either the subjects they teach, or in their ability to inspire. Students are playing the lottery, but must make the most of what they get. We should encourage the best and most talented students to become teachers and mentors. Even in an ideal world where teaching was a glamor job attracting genius, most students would spend most of their time with only so-so classes. Students would still complain that their teachers were "unjust", "mean", "stupid", etc., etc. As responsible members of society we should understand that many students would rather "do their own thing" than learn, especially if the learning requires hard work, risk of failure, and sacrifice. We should know that those are the very lessons that underpin every discipline. We should understand that most teachers are dedicated (otherwise they could be making more money putting their skills to work in some other field of endeavor), and are faced with very great hurdles.

In the police and military worlds there is a caution, "Don't too quickly judge the decisions and actions of your man in the field". Monday morning quarterbacking, especially by people far removed from the action is seldom productive. In this instance we are asked to take sides with a disgruntled student against a teacher. We've heard only one side of the story, and that by a person who wants sympathy and an excuse for their failure. By condemning the teacher and sympathizing with the student, you further undermined classroom discipline.