Christianity does have some positive aspects.

You've got to be kidding. Good Christians religiously participated in slavery, child abuse, subjugation of women, and violent conflict for almost 2,000 years after the birth of Christianity. It took the rise of humanism to change anything.

Jesus never said a word against slavery (which is explicitly condoned in both the Old and New Testaments) and is not known to have advocated rights for women and children (the OT values females less than men and suggests beating children with a rod, and in the NT Paul said that women should be submissive, dress modestly, cover their heads, not speak out in church, never have authority over men, and their only hope of salvation was through childbearing). The God of the Bible generally settled conflicts by mass killings (negotiations may be used to trick your enemies before slaughtering them). Many Christians fully expect God and Jesus return soon and wreak havok on the earth, torturing and killing most of its inhabitants for not having the proper beliefs.

Not. Do your homework.

On slavery: Ever heard of Wilberforce? Livingston? Newton? Ever read their writing? Don't try to pretend that Christianity was not instrumental in the abolition of slavery.
On women: Paul wrote: "there is no difference [of status] between male and female" and Peter wrote "treat wives with consideration and respect". Jesus was hassled for the respect that he showed to women (consider, for example, John 4)
On children: Jesus said "of such is the kingdom of God". Try as you might, you cannot wrest universal education or the abolition of child labor from their Christian context.

As I stated earlier:
Please don't represent Christianity by its hypocrites, and I won't abuse humanism on the basis of its bad apples either.

I have done my homework (see the threads on slavery, etc). You have not. Please quote anything that Jesus or anyone else in the Bible said against slavery. Christians who opposed slavery did so in spite of their religion, not because of it.

Please quote anything that Jesus or anyone else in the Bible said advocating any kind of rights for women and children (treating wives with consideration and respect says nothing about giving them rights to own property, vote, make valid contracts, or work at their choice of professions, and merely talking to a woman does not grant her any rights).

Jesus may allow children into his kingdom, but he did nothing to ensure their safety and well-being while on earth. While Christians may have eventually abolished child labor, the impetus to do so did not come form their religion but from the enlightenment of humanity.

Jesus may have said to turn the other cheek, but when did he ever advocate negotiations over force? He promised war and hatred, not peace, to the world.

Now you're kidding, right?

BTW, forgive me for not guessing that a2k threads were "homework" -- would you mind providing a link to help me out there?

In response to the title of this forum; yes, christianity does have its positive aspects. While 90-percent of them are in church service every Sunday, they are not out in the 'real' world effecting crime against the rest of us.

Please read William Wilberforce's Practical Christianity. You will learn that your revisionist history does not hold up under scrutiny. After his life's goal of the abolition of the slave trade in the British Empire was accomplished (USA followed suit decades later), Wilberforce campaigned for universal education and care for disadvantaged children. The impetus for this was precisely from the man's religion -- according to him!

I have to side with Terry on this one.
I usually stay out of religious posts simply because I get too hot headed and LOVE an arguement. It is what flips my lid.. I cant help it.
Anyway.. I have done alot of homework on religion. Christianity in fact.
I have right here in my hands a printing of King James version XII printed in 1722 in New Amsterdam. ( wich is what new york was called before it was called new york )
In it , it has a story of slavery. How by Jesus' hand , people were struck of color so that thier ancestors may live in punishment for the sins of thier fathers. That it is HIS word to treat colored people as slaves, make them work for you , and you are a christian in the highest respects if you follow this. You are to instill the punishment that god can not on these people and make sure you remind them every day that they are to 'fall to' christianity. Save thier souls by taking them to church and releasing them of thier satanic ways. Africans in particular were said to be inhabited by the devil and upon purchasing one that was newly from a shipment you were to scald the devil out of them .
This story is no longer in the bible today. It faded out about late 1880 when the catholics made that younger woman a saint ( i cant think of her name, she was 17 i believe ) anyway.. they added a story of mother mary to the bible and edited some out. I sh*t you not.
Later in the early 1900's the mormons decided to jump on this slavery bandwagon and created thier own version of the bible wich still includes people being 'struck of color' as punishment.
Christianity is responsible for MANY of deaths , wars, and other nasty human ego plagues. The witch burnings???? >sigh< The bible still says that is ok to do. I will find the passage sometime.. Selling your daughters?? that is still ok by the bible too.
Of course , people say that those practices are not relevant to our society today.. but if you are following the word of god, you shouldnt question the book right? So why is it that the bloodiest religion still in practice today is revered as the best? the 'holiest'? and the only one? If sibgle people are responsible for that many deaths , they too are murdered and never heard from again.
> pant pant pant <

my fingers hurt.

I think I have too much to say about things sometimes. i hope noone is offended by my opinions. They are mine, I own them. I do not hate people who practice christianity, i just hate the religion's past / present / and future.

No kidding. Nor was it in the Bible when the first copies came off the Gutenberg Press (let alone the preceeding 1400 years). It has no history in any Christian tradition. That someone who pretends to have "done [a lot] of homework on [Christianity]" should reference it is pathetic, and has lost you any credibility you might have had on the subject.

I really don't understand why so many people find it strange that Jesus didn't openly speak out against slavery and such (at least not according to the Bible). Jesus mission on Earth was after all not about political reformation. Let's suppose Jesus would have temporarily stepped aside from his spiritual mission, and directly and openly criticised slavery. What good do you think that would have done? It is not as if he carried any political influence. It would most likely just have resulted in his own arrest, which would have been an impediment to his real mission.

Jesus did after all say: "Do to others as you would have them do to you." Try to reconcile that with slavery...

Exactly right. What's more, Paul's writings with respect to slavery were centuries (perhaps millenia) ahead of his time. He wrote "there is no difference [in status] between slave and free". He listed slave-traders with murderers and adulterers. He said that God has no favorites between slave and free. He wrote to Philemon to "ask" him to not only forgive his slave, but free him. We do well to measure all these things against the culture of the time (in which case they are remarkable indeed) rather than impose the intervening two thousand years upon them.

I am a Buddhist though I believe there is value in all religions. Nearly all religions have wonderful ideals such as not killing, being good to people, living a decent life, etc. But not all those who believe practice as they preach. An old WWII song went, "praise the Lord and pass the ammunition".