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A World Without War - Unlikely

 
 
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 08:48 pm
In this week's issue of the magazine US News and World Report a article was printed titled "The Roots of War". In it the author discusses the impact of warfare on mankind throughout our history. As I read through the article I was profoundly intrigued by an issue that the author raises regarding the possibility of the nature of warfare being endemic in the nature of man.

I am posting the link in the hopes that others may read this report and ponder the importance of its message.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/040426/misc/26war.htm

Tomas Hayden academically reviews the ubiquity of conflict in the affairs of human kind dating back to prehistoric times. He also explains a salient hypothesis that warfare may be inherent in humanity. This he supports by reporting the research done by several scientists. One study has proven that chimpanzes actually engage in warfare employing everything from ambushes to defensive territories and more.
Another study proved that some of the so-called "peaceful" societies from ancient times were well acquainted with violent conflict. This has been documented from cave paintings to archeological findings. Hayden, also describes possible causes for warfare, especially the conflict over resources, and the intrinsic increase in violence given the increase (or otherwise stated development) of a civilization.
Altogether, Hayden paints a grim picture, though he does it to make an important point. The point is that if humans could understand their natural tendency to violence there may be ways to be found to better commute the damage war does to the human race.

Now, I know that many on this site are vehement believers in peace, love, and goodwill, and though I wouldn't want to detract from that I would like to see if the concept makes sense to others. I myself completely agree with the notion that a complex social structure among humans will always spawn conflict and strife. I feel that to ignore such a propensity would be akin to ignoring the lethal nature of the HIV virus in aversion to facing the horror of AIDS. Only by admitting an infection can doctors begin to study the disease in the hopes of finding a mitigating treatment in lieu of a complete cure.

The inclination of violence in humans is something far too fundamental for doctrine or sentiment to overcome. Anyone who believes otherwise would, at the very least, have to admit that "peace" in a people hasn't been with us for thousands of years. Therefore, perhaps the study of warfare should not focus to the two polarizations that they seem to today -the study of expansion of warfare (i.e. military strategy, tactics studies), or the study of the elimination of warfare (e.g. theory and formula to end violent conflict around the globe). Hayden suggests that an honest study of our natures may reveal the tendencies, the triggers, and the constancy of war among ourselves. Perhaps if we studied this way we may find solutions based on averting (but not eliminating) conflict by refining the analysis of when and where force should be applied and is in acute demand. And when and where it isn't, of course.
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:26 pm
Very interesting. I just got back from having a couple of beers with friends, but am bookmarking this to contemplate tomorrow!
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 09:52 pm
I don't think that being a believer in, as you call it, "peace love and goodwill" (or peace, love and brown rice as I prefer) in any way necessitates a denial of aggression as a pretty basic force in humanity.

Ethologists like Konrad Lorenz were saying it a long time ago - Lorenz's work is famously set out in his very readable book, "On Aggression", the major relevant thesis of which is that we are an aggressive species whose weaponry has sadly outgrown our inhibitions against violence - ie that being a naturally pretty defencelss species we did not require for our survival the kinds of complex instinctive or preferred behaviour inhibitory forces developed by more naturally well endowed with weapons animals (eg wolves, where submission on the part of an opponent triggers an inhibition against further attack).

Having had an, evolutionarily speaking, very recent explosion in our capacity to do each other great harm, we have not, Lorenz believes, had the opportunity for our "wiring", as it were, to catch up.

The killer chimps you reference can certainly cause great harm to a neighbouring troupe - but they are not capable of doing the mass slaughter th at we can.

New Guinea is interesting in this regard - there, peoples living extremely traditional life-styles still exist - though the government is trying to change it - and remote tribes still make war as a kind of rather deadly entertainment, almost casually. I recall a film crew doing some sort of documentary who ended up, by accident, just because the tides of battle met right where they were - filming a group of people having a skirmish, who were calmly trotting back and forth in front of the cameras, attacking each other with spears - just parting for the film crew as they would for a tree or rock. A couple of people were hurt - none too badly - though this skirmish began as revenge for a killing - sort of Hatfields and McCoys stuff.

My point is, that the battles were seemingly quite satisfying to the participants - and only the odd person was killed every now and then.

I think that understanding our nature nd dealing with it honestly and calmly is essential if we are ever to succeed in lessening the toll of wars.

Pity we aren't more like the bonobos!
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 10:03 pm
Re: A World Without War - Unlikely
Lusatian wrote:
Now, I know that many on this site are vehement believers in peace, love, and goodwill


Are you a believer in "peace, love, and goodwill"?
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kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Apr, 2004 11:09 pm
bookmark
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Heliotrope
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Apr, 2004 04:24 am
War is really, really easy to stop.
I mean laughably easy.
All the religious conflicts, the territorial wars, the personal interest wars...etc... etc...
All of it can be stopped.

And you all know how.

Get rid of all the humans and all the problems go away.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Apr, 2004 04:53 am
I think I might change the focus of the premise a bit, and say that our world, and the natural world does indeed thrive on conflict, but not necessarily outright warfare, which is just the radical end of the conflict scale. You have warmongers, and peacemakers, for example. Neither would really be terribly effective without the other.
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suzy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Apr, 2004 07:33 pm
I still haven't decided what I think!
I do think it wouldn't be such an issue if we weren't always striving for bigger and better weapons, and I don't believe THAT is inherent in all humans!
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Charli
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Apr, 2004 08:09 pm
The author of the article . . . ?
The author of the article has an interesting name. Is this "the" Tom Hayden of the '60's and '70's "fame"? Scanning the first and last pages of the article didn't give a clue as to what the author's base of reference is. He does quote some good sources, however.[/color]
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Apr, 2004 08:15 pm
suzy, as I am computer illiterate, please call up all the spammers who send me info on fake Viagra. I have a sneaking suspiscion that the warmongers have some trouser problems of their own. I would hate to think that all this penis enlargement crap I get in my e-mail was actually from the US government.
0 Replies
 
suzy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Apr, 2004 09:28 pm
Hahaha! if I were computer literate, I would surely do that for you! Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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