Reply
Fri 24 Jan, 2014 10:56 pm
This is something that's been on my mind for a while now. It's a very morally grey situation that happened, and it requires a lot of context to fully understand it, but I'll try to be brief.
First of all, I have severe ocd and I worry and think about specific things to death. I'd like to think as a result of this I've been a very moral person throughout my life. So basically, I could be overthinking this, or maybe what I did was actually morally wrong; I can't tell.
So while living in Thailand I went out one night and partied in a red-light district area. I've never paid for sex and I've always turned down offers for that while living there, but I'd had sex with girls who were prostitutes often and for free. Prostitution is commonplace in Thailand and if you're young and good looking enough and a foreigner then it's not unusual for prostitutes to sleep with guys for free. Also, Thai people have a very liberal attitude towards sex, no one there is saving themselves for marriage, that is a western ideal.
Anyways, I was out all night with this girl who was a prostitute, but seemed really into me. We kissed a few times and were very touchy feely. After the bar we went out for food and she ran into her brother and told him how handsome I was. Then we stopped by and visited her moms shop on the way home and she said the same thing to her mom.
After getting to her place, she commented that she could stay awake all the next day and that she felt great. I lay on the bed fully clothed and she proceeded to take off all her clothes except for just a thong. She climbed into bed beside me and we started fooling around. (this is where the story gets embarrassing/weird) So she was fondling me a bit and I started fingering her for a few minutes and then right as I was thinking about getting out the condom in my pocket she fell asleep!
Now, a few weeks before I'd had a girl over whom I slept with and then in the middle of the night when I felt aroused I put a condom on and started have sex with her and it she woke up and was very into it and it was incredibly hot. So, when this girl passed out, I took off her thong and put a condom on and began to have sex with her thinking she'd wake up and it would be very erotic again, especially since she'd just said how awake she felt. As I started going she made sounds but never opened her eyes. I'm really not sure how lucid she was, but I ejacualted relatively quickly and then after felt really weird that I'd just slept with a girl who was pretty much asleep. It was about 6am at that point and I wanted to sleep in my own bed so I left, feeling really sketchy, and now in retrospect realize that leaving made the whole thing even more sketchy.
So, I'm not sure if that constitutes rape? or was it basically consensual beyond a reasonable doubt? it was definitely sketchy and i don't feel good about it, and it obviously is not what i was intending to happen, but i'm not sure if this makes me a horrible person or not?
thoughts would be much appreciated, thanks.
@wombatking,
Seems a lot like date rape to me.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/date+rape
As for whether it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, that is for a jury to decide. If it bothers you, pay a lawyer and talk to him or her and ask.
And for God's sake, stop trying to screw sleeping women. Consent is suspect at best, regardless of whether they are prostitutes, you're good-looking, it's hot, or whatever other excuse is out there.
Your post is confusing. You start out by talking about one girl, then switch to:
"Now, a few weeks before I'd had a girl over whom I slept with . . . "
Who was this girl? A prostitute? Someone you date?
You really do need to re-connect with that girl and apologize for taking advantage of her when she was not conscious.
Then you need to figure out why you think it's OK to take advantage of girls when they are not conscious enough to even be a willing partner.
I suspect it's an impulsive, control issuer or you think your needs come before anyone else's.
did you both read the whole post..?
"for god's sake stop trying to have sex with sleeping women" ..so you didn't get that i felt remorse for what happened, even though it was unintentional? it's not so black and white an issue when you look at the entire context, which is what i'm asking you to consider.
as for contacting her, i don't know her name, those types of girls move around a lot (she wasn't from the city i met her in) and i doubt my ability to pick her out of a crowd, let alone that she would even remember me; so it's not possible or else i would.
i really had no intention to take advantage of her, i know that might sound like bs but it's true. i really thought she would wake up (maybe she did a bit? im not sure). i'm not sure this is the correct place to ask about this either, it might be hard to understand without living there for a long time. living there certainly changed my views on sex and prostitution. in thailand if a working girl gets naked of her own volition and gets into bed with you then it's pretty obvious she willing to have sex. there's a lot of sexual shame in the western world and a history of women being taken advantage of that might cloud judgement about this. that being said, I DONT THINK WHAT I DID WAS OK, and i'm obviously going to be very careful about that in the future unless it's my wife or something. what i guess i'm asking is if this makes me a bad person or not.
@wombatking,
Some rapists feel remorse too, but it didn't mean that a rape didn't occur. I don't know and can't tell if it was rape based on your writing. I might suggest finding her and having a discussion with the girl and just listen to what she has to say and try to not cause a stir by tipping your hand that you feel it was not consensual. However, the first step of discussing proper procedure should start with a consult with a lawyer or legal aid.
[edit: are you saying you live in Thailand? if so your culture is different from than in in USA, I can't properly advise you here. Also you have not made her contact again nor have received a warrant or summons either. I don't think anyone can tell you whether or not a rape occurred.]
Quote:Wombat said: "She climbed into bed beside me..she fell asleep!...As I started going she made sounds but never opened her eyes"
Relax, we won't tell her what happened if you won't..
It seems as though you had sex with an unconscious woman, not a sleeping woman. I think your having sex with the former would always constitute rape. I cannot imagine a woman not awakening from sleep when a guy penetrates her.
In general, having sex with prostitutes is very foolish. I don't think a condom can always be relied upon as total protection. Remember, such things as herpes is for life.
@Ragman,
ha why is no one fully reading my posts..
i said that it's impossible to contact her, yes it was in thailand, obviously there was no pursuit of charges, and i have zero doubt in my mind that she was a willing partner even though that might be hard to imagine for some people
but yes, i realize the consent thing became an issue when she didnt wake up. i never had the thought run through my mind of having sex with an unconscious woman; i truly thought she'd wake up and it would erotic, which happened before to me in the past. in no way do i feel like i forced myself on her, but i can imagine it would hard for someone else to read that and not think im a full of myself douchebag. i was there and i know. if she had just woken up like a normal person then this wouldnt even have been on my conscience at all.
Quote:Advocate said: In general, having sex with prostitutes is very foolish
Yeah a complete waste of money, there's no love or warmth from them, they stink of booze and tobacco and they won't even let you kiss them, so i've been told..
@Advocate,
Yeah, one time just previous to that I had slept with a woman, then later in the night when we were both still basically asleep I slept with her again and it was very erotic and she was very into it, so I was essentially aiming for the same thing here, and never thought that she just wouldn't wake up. Maybe she was partly awake? She was making some noises but didn't open her eyes.. I really don't know.
but yeah, i've been tested since leaving thailand, results were all in the clear, and i don't sleep around anymore at all.
altogether a shitty situation. I really didn't mean for it to turn out like that, truly.
@Advocate,
also, it's important to note that we went out for food before this, drank water, and spent an hour at her mother's place before going back to her room. Neither of us was more than mildly intoxicated, so I don't know how she passed out like that..
She didn't seem to me like she was on drugs either. It was like 6am when this happened so we'd been out all night. Could've just been exhaustion?
I wouldnt know how you could say she was unconscious and not asleep, she was a little bit responsive so maybe she was partly awake during it?
either way, facts are i know she was a willing partner and it was unintentional as i thought she'd wake up, but i realize i should have tried to wake her first and not proceeded without clear consent first.
question is now, what do i do about it?
no way to contact her.. i do feel sorry about it and obviously will be extremely careful with this in the future..
@wombatking,
And maybe the first step in turning over this new leaf is dropping the idea that having sex with someone without even checking to see if they're awake is a bad idea.
@jespah,
haha, ITS NOT AN IDEA I HAVE.
it happened one time. unintentionally. i don't think it's ok. that was already established.
i volunteer all the time, i've planted 60,000 trees, i organized delivery of meals to homeless people in thailand, i'm going into a career where i'm risking my life to save others. IM TRYING TO BE A GOOD PERSON. i unintentionally fucked up one time, you don't need to make it out like it's a thing i'm doing on the regular. but i get it, you made your point.
Aside from the issue of whether or not these partners are awake (or not,) please try to have meaningful sex in the future. So much better than sex with prostitutes.
That means wide awake, looking at that person and talking and making love TO EACH OTHER. It's so much better than just humping a warm object in bed.
On the other hand, if you see women as pure sex objects, then you don't have to concern yourself with whether or not they are "connected" to you in any way.
Hey Wombat, it's not clear if you used a condom. If you did, you can't really be a rapist because brutal rapists don't use condoms..
@Romeo Fabulini,
thanks....
yes i use a condom every time and get tested once a year
@PUNKEY,
yeah, i've always known that, but you're not going to find love in thailand and i lived there for a long time
the last six months though i've only slept with one girl. from now on i will ask every girl i sleep with to sign a waiver stating they are completely awake though
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Hey Wombat, it's not clear if you used a condom. If you did, you can't really be a rapist because brutal rapists don't use condoms..
Do you know this from experience?
Thai people do NOT have a liberal attitude to sex. You've just experienced desperate girls who acted that way in order to land a foreign husband. (Asian prostitutes never come from wealthy families). She felt very awake & then fell asleep. She was obviously on something. So you had sex with an unconscious woman. Damn right it was rape.
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace