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Which is more likely, theism or atheism?

 
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 01:44 pm
Dawkins is "an outspoken atheist"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins
And he fronted an atheist campaign to have these adverts plastered on a fleet of Brit buses (google 'atheist buses').
So his belief is that "there's probably no God", and the campaign backfired on him and his chums because it made people chuckle - "Ha ha, atheists admit they're not sure!"..Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/atheistbus.gif
0 Replies
 
JimmyJ
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 01:56 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
"Which is more likely" demands numbers. One cannot be more or less likely than the other without a number for both.

Stick with the shallow end, Jimmy.


likelihood: the state or fact of something's being likely

^hm... Don't see anything about figures in there.
Nice try, Frank. You have failed once again. Stick to golf and poker.

JimmyJ
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 01:57 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
It's stalemated 50-50!
Atheists say "There's no evidence of a god"
Theists say "Life and the universe is ample evidence of a creator"..


Atheists would not exist if there were evidence of a creator.

I do not care if there is or is not one. If there were evidence presented that show one exists I would accept it and gladly convert to theism. The problem is no such evidence exists.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 01:57 pm
@Frank Apisa,
No Frank, point 1 is nonsense. Of course there is "evidence" in the eyes of believers ! Point 2 holds depending on what line you take on the meaning of "existence".
Statements about "evidence for no Gods" are just facile.
Atheism is NOT a belief. It is a rejection of THE NEED to believe irrespective of how it is vocally expressed. And "logic" plays no part whatsoever except in justifying the rejection of need. Agnostics like you who think religion is a potential matter of demonstrable "truth" or "correctness" simply don't get it.
JimmyJ
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 01:59 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank's argument is something akin to this:

Frank: I do not do believing, but I believe that bunnies that fly do not exist.

Jimmy: That's a contradiction

Frank: You can't prove any contradiction.

Jimmy: . . .
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 02:07 pm
@JimmyJ,
JimmyJ wrote:

Quote:
"Which is more likely" demands numbers. One cannot be more or less likely than the other without a number for both.

Stick with the shallow end, Jimmy.


likelihood: the state or fact of something's being likely

^hm... Don't see anything about figures in there.
Nice try, Frank. You have failed once again. Stick to golf and poker.




If you are going to say that one is more likely than the other...you have to quantify the both.

But keep trying to make an absurd point. It reminds me of my youth!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 02:20 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

No Frank, point 1 is nonsense. Of course there is "evidence" in the eyes of believers !


C'mon, Fresco...you are usually much sharper than this.

"Point 1" was: "Actually, most atheistic arguments are variations on two main themes: 1) Theists cannot produce evidence of a GOD...and there is no evidence that gods exist."

And for certain many atheists argue from that position. It really doesn't matter to the atheists making that argument if there is evidence in the eyes of the "believers."

What were you thinking about here? How can you claim it is nonsense, when there are atheists right here in A2K who argue from that position?

Quote:
Point 2 holds depending on what line you take on the meaning of "existence".
Statements about "evidence for no Gods" are just facile.


Fresco...point 2 was: Actually, most atheistic arguments are variations on two main themes: 2) There is no need for a god to explain existence.

Whether the argument makes sense or not...you have to argue with your fellow atheists...but most certainly there are atheists who argue this point.

Quote:
Atheism is NOT a belief.


SOME atheism is NOT a belief. Edgar Blythe, an atheist, definitely believes there are no gods. He has said so many, many times. I have several atheistic friends (all of whom are strong atheists, which is what you find mostly when you are not in debate with them)...and they all "believe" there are no gods.

Are you going to be like Jimmy and say that there are NO atheists who do not "believe" there are no gods. (Please tell me you are not.)


Quote:
It is a rejection of THE NEED to believe irrespective of how it is vocally expressed. And "logic" plays no part whatsoever except in justifying the rejection of need. Agnostics like you who think religion is a potential matter of demonstrable "truth" or "correctness" simply don't get it.


Yeah...all fine and good. But almost every agnostic I know (including myself when I classified myself as an agnostic)...agree completely in rejecting the need to "believe" irrespective of how it is vocally expressed. I do not "believe" there are gods. (I also do not believe there are no gods)

Atheists like you who think the agnostics "don't get it"...simply do not get it.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 02:22 pm
@JimmyJ,
JimmyJ wrote:

Frank's argument is something akin to this:

Frank: I do not do believing, but I believe that bunnies that fly do not exist.

Jimmy: That's a contradiction

Frank: You can't prove any contradiction.

Jimmy: . . .


Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy...you have got to stop making stuff up.

You have NEVER heard me say "I believe" anything. NEVER! Nor have you ever seen me write such a thing.

So stop. You are making a fool of yourself.

There is no contradiction in what I have been discussing here...and if there were...you would post a link to it.

You cannot...because I have not contradicted myself.
JLNobody
 
  3  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 02:58 pm
Frank, I repeat for the Nth time: I have no belief in objectively existing Gods or even absolute metaphysical truth(s). I do think, however, that Gods and No-Gods exist as human inventions. But those inventions make no sense to me. If they DID make sense I suppose I would become afflicted, like you, with agnosticism.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 03:00 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Atheists say "There's no evidence of a god"
Theists say "Life and the universe is ample evidence of a creator"..Smile

The word evidence has to mean the same thing in both camps, or the comparison is meaningless (as in your example).
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 03:00 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Your question is ambiguous. Do you mean which is more likely "true," or do you mean which is more likely to be adopted? By the way, what a goofy newbie. This topic has been beaten to death here, and years before you showed up.

Thanks, Set. I'm sure glad I didn't waste any time on this pointless discussion.
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 03:01 pm
@neologist,
OH #$%^&! What did I just do?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 03:06 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Frank, I repeat for the Nth time: I have no belief in objectively existing Gods or even absolute metaphysical truth(s). I do think, however, that Gods and No-Gods exist as human inventions. But those inventions make no sense to me. If they DID make sense I suppose I would become afflicted, like you, with agnosticism.


Fine I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on that, JL.

Sorry you think the question of whether there are gods or not makes no sense to you. I

Not sure what "the question makes no sense" is all about, but if the question is discussed and I am part of the discussion...I simply acknowledge that I do not know. If you consider that an affliction...that is your right.

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 03:07 pm
JLNobody wrote:

Frank, I repeat for the Nth time: I have no belief in objectively existing Gods or even absolute metaphysical truth(s). I do think, however, that Gods and No-Gods exist as human inventions. But those inventions make no sense to me. If they DID make sense I suppose I would become afflicted, like you, with agnosticism.


Okay...you certainly repeated it for the 2nd time here.

Not sure why the question makes no sense to you, JL...but it is a question that has intrigued people for a very long time...and some of the finest minds ever on the planet have wrestled with it.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 06:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
"The finest minds on the planet"!
I'm impressed by such a spectacular appeal to authority Frank.
Actually I don't recall much "wrestling". Usually they were believers or atheists having seen through the untenability of agnosticism.
JimmyJ
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 10:25 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If you are going to say that one is more likely than the other...you have to quantify the both.

But keep trying to make an absurd point. It reminds me of my youth!




likelihood: the state or fact of something's being likely

^hm... Don't see anything about figures in there.
Nice try, Frank. You have failed once again. Stick to golf and poker.

If you keep avoiding my statement, I'll keep reposting it.
JimmyJ
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 21 Dec, 2013 10:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy...you have got to stop making stuff up.

You have NEVER heard me say "I believe" anything. NEVER! Nor have you ever seen me write such a thing.

So stop. You are making a fool of yourself.

There is no contradiction in what I have been discussing here...and if there were...you would post a link to it.

You cannot...because I have not contradicted myself.


You are denying saying you do not believe unicorns exist on Earth?

Lets just be clear on that. Do you deny that? I will post a link if you say you deny it lol. It won't be hard for me to find since you've said it numerous times.

Don't lie, old man. You're either a pathological liar or your memory is starting to fade. They say memory is the 1st or 2nd thing to go.
knaivete
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 01:38 am
@JimmyJ,
Quote:
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

You caught Jimmy out on this correctly, Finn.

My my, you are old. The correct phrase is "you called Jimmy out". You're a funny guy, Frank.


In all candour Jimmy , the phrase is correct, you were "caught out".

Quote:
Which is more likely, theism or atheism?


Not only but also your question means, is a belief in god(s) more likely than an absence of belief.

Never mind.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 06:52 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

"The finest minds on the planet"!
I'm impressed by such a spectacular appeal to authority Frank.
Actually I don't recall much "wrestling". Usually they were believers or atheists having seen through the untenability of agnosticism.


The question of whether or not gods exist appealed to people like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Newton and many other fine minds, Fresco.

But someone like you who finds it unworthy apparently has to downgrade them because they thought it worthy of consideration. Laughable.

And if you think there is something wrong with saying "I do not know" when one does not know...then you have a serious problem.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Dec, 2013 06:55 am
@JimmyJ,
JimmyJ wrote:

Quote:
If you are going to say that one is more likely than the other...you have to quantify the both.

But keep trying to make an absurd point. It reminds me of my youth!




likelihood: the state or fact of something's being likely

^hm... Don't see anything about figures in there.
Nice try, Frank. You have failed once again. Stick to golf and poker.

If you keep avoiding my statement, I'll keep reposting it.



If you are going to say that one is more likely than the other...you have to quantify the both, Jimmy...no matter what that particular definition says.

But you can't...and your assertion that one is more likely than the other is an unfounded, unsubstantiated assertion that you know holds no water...so continue to post repeats as often as you like...and I will continue to address them.
Wink
 

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