God in human form

(My replies are in pretty red ink)

Neo said: the OT is necessary as a ". . .tutor leading to Christ...:(Galatioan 3:24)
The OT foretells his coming and makes interesting reading. But "essential"? Nah!
"Through Jesus we are saved,and not through Moses" (Acts 13:39)

Neo said: Don't recall any references by Jesus to christmas or easter. How does participating in pagan celebrations devoted to the Saturnalia or the goddess Astarte facilitate that?
Last I heard, Christmas and Easter were CHRISTIAN celebrations!
As for transfusions, we have the medical knowledge to save life with them, or aren't we supposed to be good samaritans? (I bet no atheist would refuse their kids a transfusion).. Wink

Neo said: Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall (1Corinthians 10:12)
Same to you mate, you've hitched your wagon to the JW's and have to let them do your thinking for you, but I belong to no organised religion and am free as a bird.. Smile

Jesus said:-"You have ONE teacher, ME" (Matt 23:10)

2 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

(My replies are in pretty red ink)

Neo said: the OT is necessary as a ". . .tutor leading to Christ...:(Galatioan 3:24)
The OT foretells his coming and makes interesting reading. But "essential"? Nah!
"Through Jesus we are saved,and not through Moses" (Acts 13:39)

Neo said: Don't recall any references by Jesus to christmas or easter. How does participating in pagan celebrations devoted to the Saturnalia or the goddess Astarte facilitate that?
Last I heard, Christmas and Easter were CHRISTIAN celebrations!
As for transfusions, we have the medical knowledge to save life with them, or aren't we supposed to be good samaritans? (I bet no atheist would refuse their kids a transfusion)..

Neo said: Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall (1Corinthians 10:12)
Same to you mate, you've hitched your wagon to the JW's and have to let them do your thinking for you, but I belong to no organised religion and am free as a bird..
Jesus said:-"You have ONE teacher, ME" (Matt 23:10)

Hummm...the god of the Old Testament was the god Jesus worshiped.

You ought to have more respect for Jesus' god, Romeo.

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

[Last I heard, Christmas and Easter were CHRISTIAN celebrations!

Nominal christianity will do anything to trap the masses. As for my personal opinion of Easter, check here: http://able2know.org/topic/51066-1

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@Frank Apisa,

See, Frank.
I knew you could be right.

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Alright kiddies, sit up straight and pay attention; copy this into your exercise books....OOPS sorry, I thought for a minute I was giving a sunday school class.. Smile

SCHOOLS OUT FOREVER by Mick
People wonder why the Old Testament was so harsh. The answer is that God has never changed, but the way he had to package himself to get his message across HAS changed, he had to talk in harsh primitive OT terms to earlier harsh primitive peoples in their own "language" like a strict headteacher to get their attention.
Then when God felt the time was right to package himself in a softer way to more advanced peoples, he gave us Jesus who came not to abolish the OT wholesale, but to show us how to apply its rules with enlightened goodnatured commonsense.
And people quickly realised - "The covenant of Jesus is superior to the old one" (Heb 8:6-7)
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30)
"The law brought us to Christ like a schoolmaster,but now through Christ we are not under that schoolmaster" (Gal 3:22-25)

Likewise, when Ryker in Star Trek joined Klingon vessel Pagh on an exchange visit as 1st Officer he had to punch and throw stroppy Klingon 2nd Officer Klag across the bridge to get the attention and respect of him and the rest of the crew.
Remember, Jesus saves, not the OT .. Smile

Right Klag?

"Grrrr..."

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/klagB.gif

2 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Alright kiddies, sit up straight and pay attention; copy this into your exercise books....OOPS sorry, I thought for a minute I was giving a sunday school class..

SCHOOLS OUT FOREVER by Mick
People wonder why the Old Testament was so harsh. The answer is that God has never changed, but the way he had to package himself to get his message across HAS changed, he had to talk in harsh primitive OT terms to earlier harsh primitive peoples in their own "language" like a strict headteacher to get their attention.
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30)
"The law brought us to Christ like a schoolmaster, but now through Christ we are not under that schoolmaster" (Gal 3:22-25)
(Likewise, when Ryker in Star Trek joined Klingon vessel Pagh on an exchange visit as 1st Officer he had to punch and throw stroppy Klingon 2nd Officer Klag across the bridge to get the attention and respect of him and the rest of the crew )

When God felt the time was right to package himself in a softer way to more advanced peoples, he gave us Jesus who came not to abolish the OT wholesale, but to show us how to apply its rules with enlightened goodnatured commonsense.
And people quickly realised - "The covenant of Jesus is superior to the old one" (Heb 8:6-7)
Remember, Jesus saves, not the OT ..
Right Klag?

"Grrrr..."

You found the right passage, which I highlighted. Then you obfuscated it with your buffoonery.

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Alright kiddies, sit up straight and pay attention; copy this into your exercise books....OOPS sorry, I thought for a minute I was giving a sunday school class..

SCHOOLS OUT FOREVER by Mick
People wonder why the Old Testament was so harsh. The answer is that God has never changed, but the way he had to package himself to get his message across HAS changed, he had to talk in harsh primitive OT terms to earlier harsh primitive peoples in their own "language" like a strict headteacher to get their attention.
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30)
"The law brought us to Christ like a schoolmaster,but now through Christ we are not under that schoolmaster" (Gal 3:22-25)
(Likewise, when Ryker in Star Trek joined Klingon vessel Pagh on an exchange visit as 1st Officer he had to punch and throw stroppy Klingon 2nd Officer Klag across the bridge to get the attention and respect of him and the rest of the crew )

Then when God felt the time was right to package himself in a softer way to more advanced peoples, he gave us Jesus who came not to abolish the OT wholesale, but to show us how to apply its rules with enlightened goodnatured commonsense.
And people quickly realised - "The covenant of Jesus is superior to the old one" (Heb 8:6-7)Remember, Jesus saves, not the OT ..
Right Klag?

"Grrrr..."

So you are saying that the Old Testament god is important after all!

It just that he was kidding the people back then...acting like a boogeyman to scare the good folk into falling into line.

Gosh, I see. He didn't mean all that killing stuff...he was just putting on a tough face.

And Jesus was only kidding when he talked about the god he worshiped...and he was only kidding when he said he was not here to change one word of the Law (ya know, that stuff mentioned in Leviticus and Deuteronomy)...not one letter of one word...not one stroke of one letter.

Wow!

Hey, Romeo, I've been known to push the envelope once or twice, but even I try to limit myself to what is not laughable.

Maybe it is time for your brain diagnostic. There haven't been any red light turning up on your mental dashboard lately, have there?

1 Reply

Quote:

Neologist said:As for my personal opinion of Easter, check here: http://able2know.org/topic/51066-1

This extract is interesting mate, I'd audition for the next Dr Who if i were you-
"Some perversion of time or hateful warp of nature had transported me into the land of Canaan just in time to view these depraved worshipers of the Baal Molech making sacrifices to him and his Queen, Ashtoreth."

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

The law has not changed, Frank. But we are no longer under its obligation, having been relieved by the New Covenant.

One example: The law required blood sacrifice. Jesus presented the ultimate blood sacrifice, thereby fulfilling that provision.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

If you don't catch the relation between the name Ashtoreth, (Astarte) and the celebration of Easter, I feel for you.

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Quote:

Frank Apisa suggested: @RF- Maybe it is time for your brain diagnostic. There haven't been any red light turning up on your mental dashboard lately, have there?

Between you and me mate Oxford and Harvard can't wait to eagerly get their hands on my brain to display in a glass jar to astound students.. Smile

My brain in action-

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

The law has not changed, Frank. But we are no longer under its obligation, having been relieved by the New Covenant.

One example: The law required blood sacrifice. Jesus presented the ultimate blood sacrifice, thereby fulfilling that provision.

Well let's assume you are correct about that, Neo...and the law has not changed but you are "no longer under its obligations."

So...at Leviticus 20:13, the god says to Moses, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.”

You are no longer under an obligation to put them to death…but the fact remains that the god STILL CONSIDERS an act of homosexuality to be an abomination, right?

That doesn't change.

And at Leviticus 25:44ff, the god says to Moses, "Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen."

How does "no longer being under the obligations of the Law" impact on that? The god still thinks there is nothing wrong with slavery…or trading in slaves, right?

That doesn't change.

And at Deuteronomy 5:9, where the god tells Moses, "I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation."

So kids of people like me...and their kids and their kid's kids and their kid's kid's kids…still will bear great punishments at the hands of that god because we are particularly fond of that god, right?

That does not change.

Right?

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa suggested: @RF- Maybe it is time for your brain diagnostic. There haven't been any red light turning up on your mental dashboard lately, have there?

Between you and me mate Oxford and Harvard can't wait to eagerly get their hands on my brain to display in a glass jar to astound students..
My brain in action-
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37P29WbYtwU&feature=player_detailpage[/youtube]

Well...get it oiled and lubed, Romeo. Don't let a precious gift like that be damaged in any way.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

. . .So...at Leviticus 20:13, the god says to Moses, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.”

You are no longer under an obligation to put them to death…but the fact remains that the god STILL CONSIDERS an act of homosexuality to be an abomination, right? . . .

Right.
I'll get to slavery later

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
. . .So...at Leviticus 20:13, the god says to Moses, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.”

You are no longer under an obligation to put them to death…but the fact remains that the god STILL CONSIDERS an act of homosexuality to be an abomination, right? . . .
Right.
I'll get to slavery later

Okay...I'll wait. And the other passage also, right?

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Quote:

Frank Apisa said: So you are saying that the Old Testament god is important after all!
It just that he was kidding the people back then...acting like a boogeyman to scare the good folk into falling into line.
Gosh, I see. He didn't mean all that killing stuff...he was just putting on a tough face.
And Jesus was only kidding when he talked about the god he worshiped...and he was only kidding when he said he was not here to change one word of the Law (ya know, that stuff mentioned in Leviticus and Deuteronomy)...not one letter of one word...not one stroke of one letter.

The New T God is just as tough as he was in the OT, for example speaking through Jesus's mouth he called nonchristians-
"dogs, pigs. " (Matt 7:6)
"weeds" (Matt 13:38 )

And elsewhere the New T sings from the same song sheet-
"brute beasts," (2 Peter 2:12)
"liars" (1 John 2:22/23)
"defiled" (Titus 1:15)
"filthy" (Rev 22:11)

If you're an old time fundy religionist, of course you can stick with the Old T and go around killing gays, burning witches and owning slaves if you want to.
Call it a test, but I don't think Jesus would be too pleased and you'd flunk bigtime.
If people think the New T God is a soft touch they're in for a nasty surprise.. Smile

"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:29-31)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/fury.gif

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said: So you are saying that the Old Testament god is important after all!
It just that he was kidding the people back then...acting like a boogeyman to scare the good folk into falling into line.
Gosh, I see. He didn't mean all that killing stuff...he was just putting on a tough face.
And Jesus was only kidding when he talked about the god he worshiped...and he was only kidding when he said he was not here to change one word of the Law (ya know, that stuff mentioned in Leviticus and Deuteronomy)...not one letter of one word...not one stroke of one letter.

The New T God is just as tough as he was in the OT, for example speaking through Jesus's mouth he called nonchristians-
"dogs, pigs. " (Matt 7:6)
"weeds" (Matt 13:38 )

And elsewhere the New T sings from the same song sheet-
"brute beasts," (2 Peter 2:12)
"liars" (1 John 2:22/23)
"defiled" (Titus 1:15)
"filthy" (Rev 22:11)

If you're an old time fundy religionist, of course you can stick with the Old T and go around killing gays, burning witches and owning slaves if you want to.
Call it a test, but I don't think Jesus would be too pleased and you'd flunk bigtime.
If people think the New T God is a soft touch they're in for a nasty surprise..
"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot,....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:29-31)

Really skirting the issues, Romeo.

If you cannot answer reasonably...just say so.

So...is the god that Jesus worshiped important or not?

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Quote:

Frank Apisa puzzled: So...is the god that Jesus worshiped important or not?

Aha, a philosophical Morris Dance wordplay riddle.. Smile

I've told you before mate, we holy men don't dance-
Jesus said:- "The world wants you to dance to its tune"(Matt 11:16)
You seem to think there's more than one God, but if you care to rephrase your question I'll try to answer, and with any luck you won't have to spend the rest of the day on the naughty step.. Smile

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa puzzled: So...is the god that Jesus worshiped important or not?

Aha, a philosophical Morris Dance wordplay riddle..
I've told you before mate, we holy men don't dance-
Jesus said:- "The world wants you to dance to its tune"(Matt 11:16)
You seem to think there's more than one God, but if you care to rephrase your question I'll try to answer, and with any luck you won't have to spend the rest of the day on the naughty step..

Jesus worshiped a god. I am asking about that god.

Is the god important...or not?

You have understood the question right from the beginning. It is a tough question for people like you...and rather than just acknowledge the problems with it, you are trying to finesse your way through it.

So get off the naughty step...and just deal with it.

0 Replies

Quote:

Frank Apisa said: You have understood the question right from the beginning. It is a tough question for people like you

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Stick-answer_zps870b8bea.png~original

Look mate, when somebody asked Isaac Asimov "what would happen if an iresistible force met an immoveable object?", Asimov replied "The question makes no sense and therefore requires no answer".
Likewise, your question "Is God important?" makes no sense, which is why I patiently invited you to re-phrase it and flesh it out a bit.
Alternatively go sit in a sunday school class and ask the kids to try to answer it for you.. Smile

1 Reply

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