neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2015 05:09 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
You always were a snide son of a bitch. That's a straw man . . .
So much for my attempt at light hearted repartee.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2015 05:14 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Nonsense--most of the religions with which i am familiar don't imagine a creator god. You're just dodging the question by assuming the silly, monotheistic god of the middle east.



Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Sikhism, Islam, Baha'i believe in a creator god. There were quite a few different American Indian religions but I would say at least half included a creator god. I wouldn't call Hinduism, or Sikhism a middle eastern religion.

Jainism, Buddhists, Taoists, Shinto no.

So of the world's "major" religions, most believe in a creator god.

Maybe if we go back and count all of the since extinguished religions of ancient civilizations we might find a majority that don't ascribe creation of the universe to a single entity, but that's not the case with living religions of any significance.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2015 05:45 pm
@Johnjohnjohn,
Johnjohnjohn wrote:

Guesses..lol


Yup...guesses...plain and simple.

Quote:
And what do you propose is the truth, since you work so hard to disprove everyone speaking the truth ( Gods truth)?


The truth is that we do not even know if there are any gods...let alone what the gods expect of humans if they do exist.

The truth is that we do not even know if there are any gods...let alone what pleases or offends any if they do.

That IS the truth.


Quote:

I want an answer from every nonbeliever/rejecter of Christ


Good luck with that.

I want peace of Earth.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2015 05:47 pm
Most North American aboriginal cosmogonies image a demiurge, such as Tortoise, lifting mud from the bottom of "the water" to form land, upon which animals, and eventually humanity, appear or are created by another demiurge. None of those traditions explain the origin of the water, nor the mud beneath, nor the demiurges which make the land and the plants and animals thereon.

This is the article from the Routledge encyclopedia of philosophy on Indian cosmogonies--which i chose because it's brief. There are, of course, many more detailed articles available online:

Quote:
Theories of the origin of the universe have been told as stories, riddles and instruction in India since early times. The three prominent religious movements, Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism each had their own myths and speculations.
In the Hindu tradition there was never one single theory. Among the divergent ideas we can distinguish: an early stage, which included themes such as there being nothing at the beginning, or the universe being created by mutual birth, or creation as the dismemberment of a sacrificial victim, or the gods arriving after the first moment of creation; and a later stage, in which Viṣṇu or Brahmā was regarded as the creator of the universe. Simultaneously, the old Sāṅkhya idea of the self-creating universe, in which the original material stuff transforms itself into the different parts of the universe, coexisted with the idea of a god creating the universe.
The early Buddhist tradition neglected questions such as ‘Does the universe exist?’ The first mention of such topics occurred in the Pāli Canon, where they were condemned. A few centuries later, these cosmological ideas were taken up by Vasubandhu, who collected them and formulated them in a comprehensive way. Without a creator god, the universe is primarily a reflection of meditational experiences of the world, a Single Circular System. There are several other systems, such as the Thousand Universe System, the Immeasurable Universe System and the Pure Land.
The Jaina tradition had a very detailed theory of the spatial arrangement of the universe. This was essential for understanding where all the individual selves travel to after death, given their spiritual accomplishments (or lack of them). From earth they go to heavens or hells, the aim being eventually to reach the place of bliss and thus to gain final freedom.


Specifically, Jainism does not imagine any sort of creation at all. See the Wikipedia article on the subject, and see also Hinduwebsite-dot-com.

From Patheos-dot-com, the beinning of the article on Shintoism reads:

Quote:
Shinto ("the way of the Kami") is the name of the formal state religion of Japan that was first used in the 6th century C.E., although the roots of the religion go back to at least the 6th century B.C.E. Shinto has no founder, no official sacred texts, and no formalized system of doctrine. (emphasis added)


Kami are spirits, and there is no cosmogony to explain where the spirits come from, nor the world in which they operate.

From Religious Tolerance-dot-org:

Quote:
Taoism is an Eastern religion/philosophy with perhaps 225 million followers. Although it is more accurately referred to as a philosophy, books on world religions inevitably include it with other religions from Buddhism to Zoroastrianism.

The exact number of followers is impossible to estimate because many of its followers also identify with other religions -- often Buddhism and Confucianism -- and because it is impossible to obtain reliable polling information from individuals in China.

Taoists were heavily persecuted in China for years after the Communist victory in 1949, and during the cultural revolution from 1966 to 1976. Some religious tolerance and freedom has been restored over the last three decades.


Two hundred twenty-five million adherents, perhaps? You call that a major world religion? You're stretching.

I can go on into more detail--and the Genesis account of the garden of Eden assumes an already existent cosmos and more than one deity--the "earlier" account of creation was in fact added later, after Judaism had become monotheistic.

But why should i bother? You usually come along like this, shooting your mouth off as though you have expert knowledge, but providing no sources, no substantiation for your claims. Basically, you just want to sneer at someone, and maybe pick a fight--although you usually play the coward and run off after a few posts.

Next time you try that, don't bring a knife to a gun fight, show up with some sources--back up your claims, which otherwise are just bullsh*t.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2015 05:50 pm
@neologist,
Oh yeah, sneering at me and implying that i claim to know all religions, that's real light-hearted.

Hypocrite.
onevoice
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Sep, 2015 08:16 pm
@timur,
Quote:
Ezekiel 5 wrote:
13 “Only then will I calm down and let my anger cool. Then you’ll know that I was serious about this all along, that I’m a jealous God and not to be trifled with.

14-15 “When I get done with you, you’ll be a pile of rubble. Nations who walk by will make coarse jokes. When I finish my angry punishment and searing rebukes, you’ll be reduced to an object of ridicule and mockery, turned into a horror story circulating among the surrounding nations. I, God, have spoken.


1 John 4:7,87 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 12:47 am
@Setanta,
No sneer was intended. I apologize.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 12:55 am
@timur,
Harsh?
Yes. But this was against a nation/religion that had made a covenant with God and broke the covenant with some particularly nasty practices. It should serve as a warning to the modern day religions who also claim a covenant relationship with God.
0 Replies
 
KoreanGodBeliever
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 01:18 am
@FBM,
Who says what I write is intended for you even if it's on a public forum?
You seem to want the world to know how intelligent you are. By pointing things out you don't agree with. In a sense you're doing exactly what your'e accusing me of doing. If people shouldn't have to listen to my nonsense, who are you for people to have to listen to you? You blatantly call me things and even say I'm not Korean. Well for your information, I'm Korean by blood but wish I wasn't. I was born in America. (Thank GOD) Korean people are the worst kinds of people I've ever witnessed because of their fake nature. You naturally beat women and children, and 99% of all Korean men I've ever met, has cheated on their spouse. Sad to say I am Korean. But I have NEVER in my life hit a woman, hit a child, or cheated on my girlfriend. Secondly, You say "what created the God that created your God". On an intellectual level, I acknowledge the existence of a God because of my Logic with a score of 138 which was tested in 1992 when the average human IQ was only 98. Therefore, because I can answer God created man(in my view and my belief alone) you can not. Because you can not, your brain is limited to thinking in ways of only whats put in front of you. You choose not to believe because there is to tangible proof of his existence. Seeming we both know the exact same amounts of everything, I believe in 1 more thing than you. So how can you argue that I'm wrong? That's truly a BIGOT thing to do.

If someone told you to jump off a bridge will you listen? Bigot!
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 01:52 am
@KoreanGodBeliever,
Quote:
Who says what I write is intended for you even if it's on a public forum?


Doesn't matter. You post in a public forum, you're inviting replies from the public.

Quote:
On an intellectual level, I acknowledge the existence of a God because of my Logic with a score of 138...


So, your "Logic" = 138. Nice.

Quote:
So how can you argue that I'm wrong?


The same way that you can argue that you're right.

Really, my point isn't even that you're wrong; it's that since you have no evidence to support your god hypothesis, your hypothesis has no merit.

Why do I oppose this and other god hypotheses? Because they're so closely related to discrimination of numerous varieties, violence of numerous varieties, sex abuse of numerous varieties, science denialism, deadly faith healing, etc, of numerous varieties. All for something that can't be show to exist outside your head. Grow up. Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and your god are just so many pacifiers for children. Your contributions to the cult of wilfull ignorance are not welcomed by me; they are opposed.

Quote:
Bigot!


Ah, that good ol' xtian unconditional human love. Loving thine enemies and doing good to those who rebuke you. Wink

FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 02:19 am
@FBM,
KoreanGodBeliever wrote:

... Something has to create something.


http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/12063541_894222917298340_573750051992074462_n.png
0 Replies
 
KoreanGodBeliever
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 02:45 am
@FBM,
Why not take matters into your own hands and create what you think should be like I have.
I've strayed away from all religions and believe in only the GOD entity. With previous beliefs from when I was a christian but only the things I agreed with in the bible. Now, what I believe doesn't have to be what you believe. This is what I think is so great about God is because in the Bible, he gave us free will. So we have the ability, granted by God to think in different ways and still both be able to go to Heaven. I don't on the other hand agree that the old testimate and the new tesitmate contradict each other in many ways. I don't agree that the pastor is the head of a church. Or that he's appointed. If anything, another human appointed him which renders it all nonsense. I believe no man is greater than another in his place with God. Maybe in strength or abilities but I also believe in these aspect, you can train and become greater than another. Even the pope. He's only a man.
Kinda get the jest of it? Just because Christians are wrong doesn't make God wrong.
Johnjohnjohn
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 06:55 am
@neologist,
Yes Jesus actually died.

God's word clearly states that the 1st death is off earth.

The 2nd death is in Hades ( hell )

Jesus descended into hades, to save our souls. Not just on the cross.

Then he rose up and ascended into Heaven.
timur
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 07:43 am
@onevoice,
onevoice wrote:
Timur, quoting Ezekiel 5, wrote:
13 “Only then will I calm down and let my anger cool. Then you’ll know that I was serious about this all along, that I’m a jealous God and not to be trifled with.

14-15 “When I get done with you, you’ll be a pile of rubble. Nations who walk by will make coarse jokes. When I finish my angry punishment and searing rebukes, you’ll be reduced to an object of ridicule and mockery, turned into a horror story circulating among the surrounding nations. I, God, have spoken.




1 John 4:7,87 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.


Why would your quote prevail over these ones?


Exodus 20:5 wrote:
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,


Deuteronomy 7:10 wrote:
But those who hate him he will repay to their face by destruction; he will not be slow to repay to their face those who hate him.


Deuteronomy 32:35 wrote:
It is mine to avenge; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them."



Deuteronomy 32:41 wrote:
when I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand grasps it in judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and repay those who hate me.


Joshua 24:19 wrote:
Joshua said to the people, "You are not able to serve the LORD. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins.


Psalm 94:1 wrote:
The LORD is a God who avenges. O God who avenges, shine forth.


Jeremiah 28:8 wrote:
From early times the prophets who preceded you and me have prophesied war, disaster and plague against many countries and great kingdoms.

timur
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 07:46 am
Neologist wrote:
Harsh?
Yes. But this was against a nation/religion that had made a covenant with God and broke the covenant with some particularly nasty practices. It should serve as a warning to the modern day religions who also claim a covenant relationship with God.


A vengeful god is love now?

Looks more like a thug..
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 08:09 am
Are you not also ?
timur
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 08:12 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
What? A vengeful god, love or a thug?
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 08:41 am
@KoreanGodBeliever,
Quote:
Why not take matters into your own hands and create what you think should be like I have.


Why would I do such a thing?

Quote:
This is what I think is so great about God is because in the Bible, he gave us free will.


Well, that's the claim. Still waiting for the evidence for either the god or the free will.

Quote:
Kinda get the jest of it?


Is this an intentional pun?

Quote:
Just because Christians are wrong doesn't make God wrong.


I don't know who's ultimately right or wrong; I just know who has the better argument. Scientists have buttloads upon buttloads of empirical data to support their cosmological model, which neither needs nor suggests a supernatural origin, while theists have absolutely no evidence for their god hypothesis. If you want to spread your beliefs around the internet, come up with something at least as compelling as what the scientists have produced. Otherwise, get used to people calling BS what it is.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 09:24 am
@Johnjohnjohn,
Johnjohnjohn wrote:
Yes Jesus actually died. . .
Then who resurrected him?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Sep, 2015 09:37 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Scientists have buttloads. . .
True.
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
Quote:
. . . .theists have absolutely no evidence for their god hypothesis. . .
I find evidence just looking into the evening sky on a clear night. And I am not swayed by the fact the evidence has been interpreted ambidextrously by others
 

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