Is Jesus God?

Quote:

TheScionofYourMother said:

JESUS IS GOD. END OF CONVERSATION!

Thanks mate but it looks a bit dry, can you slap a few hot onions and some gravy on it, thanks.. Smile

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@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

But what is even more absurd Frank is that your image is not a SECOND person as Neo and the other boys say !

I do not understand what you are saying here, WT.

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said: No paranoia, Romeo. I have no idea if Jesus (as a single individual) existed...AND NEITHER DO YOU.

I never saw Elvis either, but I'm quite prepared to accept the word of all the eyewitnesses who saw him!
Heck, he was almost as big as Jesus, there are startling similarities..

Okay...play the buffoon game. You do it so well! You are a natural. Wink

1 Reply

Quote:

Frank Apisa said to me: Okay...play the buffoon game. You do it so well! You are a natural

Thanks mate I'm trying to follow your example.. Smile

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said to me: Okay...play the buffoon game. You do it so well! You are a natural

Thanks mate I'm trying to follow your example..

Oh...doing that would cripple your effort.

Stick with the shtick you used from the moment you got here.

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@Frank Apisa,

What I am saying is that the image you see in the mirror is of yourself and it is not a secondary person --the image is not of your neighbor --it is of you.

The Trinitarians and the JWs say that Jesus is secondary to God. Although they say that Jesus is the express image of God the say that He is a different person with a different personality. This is contrary to scripture: It never calls Jesus GOD THE SON or Jehovah Jr. It calls Him the SON of God and Son of Man.

The JWs say that Jesus is an angel that has taken on the bodily form of a man and say that He is God's right hand man and created the worlds but He is not God. The strange thing about it is that The very first scripture in the Holy Bible says that in the beginning that GOD created the heaven and the earth.

The JWs don't even believe that God or as they say Jehovah created the heaven and the earth. They say an angel named Jesus did it. Isn't that contradictory within itself?

There is but one God who has revealed Himself through the face of Jesus Christ, who is the Great I AM in bodily form. The Holy Spirit is not a special force from Star Wars and is not the third person in a triune godhead. The Holy Spirit is the same Spirit of GOD that dwelled in Jesus Christ. There is one SPIRIT, NOT THREE!

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@worldtraveler24,

Quote:

What I am saying is that the image you see in the mirror is of yourself and it is not a secondary person --the image is not of your neighbor --it is of you.

I understand that, WT...and I do not dispute it. In fact I agree with it.

But it is an image...and what Neo was saying originally was that the image is not the person.

I do not want to get into the "Is Jesus God" question, because the question as being discussed is wrongfully worded.

The theists here are discussing whether scripture (or the Bible) says that Jesus is the god described in the Bible...or something other than (perhaps lesser than) the god described in the Bible.

I prefer to let you people discuss that, because I could only discuss it the way I would discuss the impact of Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels on the common person's views of the monarchy of 18th century Great Britain. Books of fiction often impact in significant ways on people living in what we refer to as "the real world."

Good discussion going here...and interesting to an observer.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

ok-fair enough!

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@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

The Trinitarians and the JWs say that Jesus is secondary to God.

I'm not sure that is what most trinitarians would say. Have you read the Athanasian Creed?

worldtraveler24 wrote:

The strange thing about it is that The very first scripture in the Holy Bible says that in the beginning that GOD created the heaven and the earth.

Correct

worldtraveler24 wrote:

The JWs don't even believe that God or as they say Jehovah created the heaven and the earth. They say an angel named Jesus did it. Isn't that contradictory within itself?

A friend of mine built a new house recently. Actually, he hired a contractor to do the work. Yet we still say that Joe built the house. Why do we say that? Could it be that the house was built according to his authority and will?

worldtraveler24 wrote:

There is but one God who has revealed Himself through the face of Jesus Christ, who is the Great I AM in bodily form. The Holy Spirit is not a special force from Star Wars and is not the third person in a triune godhead. The Holy Spirit is the same Spirit of GOD that dwelled in Jesus Christ. There is one SPIRIT, NOT THREE!

I'm not sure exactly what you have said here. Do you know what you have said?

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

. . . Thanks mate I'm trying to follow your example..

Romeo, you have set an example.

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Quote:

Frank Apisa said to Romeo: Okay...play the buffoon game. You do it so well! You are a natural
Romeo replied: Thanks mate I'm trying to follow your example..
Neologist chipped in with: Romeo, you have set an example.

Thanks mate, somebody round here's gotta do it.. Smile

Paul said: "Join with others in following my example, brothers" (Philp 3:17)

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@Frank Apisa,

I believe RF thinks he has just been applauded

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I believe RF thinks he has just been applauded

He certainly can be in a world of his own at times.

Perhaps he was just being sarcastic...but he may actually think that.

Under any circumstances...when he is not being applauded...soon he will be applauding himself.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Neo,

You are making assumptions that are not based on scripture. Your doctrine that God used Jesus (an angel mind you) to make the heavens and the earth are misinterpreted at best. The truth stares you in the face and you still choose to believe a man-made doctrine of pure ignorance over what the Bible says.

The Bible emphatically says that God created the heaven and the earth.

The Apostle Paul had a revelation on the road to Damascus and realized that Jesus was GOD. That is why he states in Colossians 1;14, 15 that all things were made by Him and for Him and nothing was made that was made without Him. Jesus is God's name. Jesus is the express image of the invisible God. He is His express image.

Let me remind you of what express means: ex·press [ik-spres]
verb (used with object)

1.

to put (thought) into words; utter or state: to express an idea clearly.

2.

to show, manifest, or reveal: to express one's anger.

John 1:1 and 14: In the beginning was the WORD the WORD was with GOD and the WORD WAS GOD. THE WORD was made flesh (the expression of GOD) and dwelled among us (JESUS). We beheld His glory--the ONLY Begotten of the FATHER full of Grace and TRUTH.

God created heaven and earth -Jesus created the heaven and the earth--Jesus is God. It is simple logic.

Let me ask you this...If what you say is correct, who created Jesus ?

If you say Jehovah then why is the Creator allowing His creation to create the worlds?

This doctrine is irrational--no sense in it whatsoever. You insist on believing this JW dogma when the scriptures prove something totally different.

1 Reply

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Let me ask you this...If what you say is correct, who created Jesus ?

His father, Jehovah

worldtraveler24 wrote:

If you say Jehovah then why is the Creator allowing His creation to create the worlds?

Why would a father not give his son the keys to the work shop?

worldtraveler24 wrote:

This doctrine is irrational--no sense in it whatsoever. You insist on believing this JW dogma when the scriptures prove something totally different.

You have not produced a single scripture supporting your belief. Most of those you cite support the contrary. Also, consider Philippians 2:9

Quote:

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Now, if Jesus were God, how could God exalt him? And if Jesus were to be exalted, would he then not be superior to God?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I suppose we all would prefer to grade our own papers, Frank.
But.
Some of us seem all to eager to award ourselves membership to the deans list.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I suppose we all would prefer to grade our own papers, Frank.
But.
Some of us seem all to eager to award ourselves membership to the deans list.

Yeah.

(As an aside, your comment about grading our own papers reminded me that Spendius has still not returned. He and I do not get along very well (at all!), but I hope nothing serious is in play to cause his absence. )

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@neologist,

Neo,

You are entitled to your opinions as we all are; however, I have quoted numerous scriptures to support the fact that Jesus is GOD and you still refute it.

There are no tools in the workshop that Jesus needed. He already possessed them all.

Matthew 28:18 "All power in heaven and in earth is given unto me...."God must be powerless because Jesus has it all!!

Neo you said:
Now, if Jesus were God, how could God exalt him? And if Jesus were to be exalted, would he then not be superior to God?

Paul is talking about the body of Jesus Christ--do you not see that? God gave the body a name that is exalted above every name: JESUS. This makes it clear that if this name is exalted higher than any other name than Jesus Name is the highest name. Why do you still serve Jehovah? Jehovah is no longer the name by which God reveals Himself to mankind: It is through the name of Jesus because the Name of Jesus is exalted above the name Jehovah.

As far as Philippians 2: 9, this just supports the fact that the Name of Jesus is higher than any other NAME, something that you refute--you say the name Jehovah is higher than any other.

You told me that Jesus is the same as Joshua and Yeshua. So according to you Jesus name is evidently no big deal!

1 Reply

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Matthew 28:18 "All power in heaven and in earth is given unto me...."God must be powerless because Jesus has it all!!

Someone had to give it.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

You told me that Jesus is the same as Joshua and Yeshua. So according to you Jesus name is evidently no big deal!

Jesus name means "Salvation of Jehovah" Jehovah's name means "He who causes to become"
.. . . . .
Notice the difference? . . . .

1 Reply

@neologist,

Neo,

As much as I applauded you for your staunch stand on the JW doctrine, I cannot agree with your thinking. I appreciate the fact that you from a sincere heart want to convey this to me but I am a lost cause for you. I know what I believe and am convinced that Jesus is GOD. There is none beside Him --He is the One and Only --, the WORD, THE GREAT I AM, and His name is Jesus.

I refuse to buy into a multiplicity of gods as you and the Trinitarians do.

I believe the Hindus have 33 million gods and they cannot even remember who they are let a lone worship them all.

My choice is to believe in the ONE TRUE AND LIVING GOD. Not two, not three and not 33million.

1 Reply

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