Is Jesus God?

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

....It makes so little sense...except for the fear factor.

You have never been able to tell me what I might fear. You have no fear of any life after death, do you? Neither do I. The idea of infinite punishment for finite sin is the height of sadistic incredulity. I wonder about the mindset of those who would equate that with a 'god of love'. And I rejoice that neither of them is God.

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I was visiting my elderly mother in her bungalow once, she'd gone bed and I was sitting watching the midnight movie when suddenly half a brick came smashing through the window scaring her cat.
A hand quickly grabbed a small cheap ornament off her windowsill and the villain vanished into the dark.
My mother came in trembling asking "What was that?".
I called the cops and they searched the area but he'd long gone.
So if he doesn't change his ways before he dies, he'll be toasting in hellfire, it's nothing to do with me because he'll have brought it on himself and will hear the words-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/satan-come-down_zps25559b80.jpg~original

"everlasting fire" Matt 18:8, 25:41
"eternal damnation" Mark 3:29
"hell fire" Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
"damnation of hell" Matt 23:33
"furnace of fire" Matt 13:42, 50
"the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43, 45
"Where their worm dieth not" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
"tormented in this flame" Luke 16:24
"everlasting punishment" Matt 25:46

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Well, from that picture, wouldn't you say it was either Satan or one of his demons running the show? WT says it is God stoking the coals. Is he right?

Just trying to get an idea of what you fire and brimstone guys actually believe.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
....It makes so little sense...except for the fear factor.
You have never been able to tell me what I might fear.

I doubt you cannot figure out the "fear" factor for yourself, Neo.

You expect that certain people will be "rewarded" after death here on Earth...and you want to be one of them.

You "fear" you may not be one of them.

And anyone who thinks the god of the Bible actually exists...and who tells us he does not fear that god...is just trying to kid us.

Quote:

You have no fear of any life after death, do you? Neither do I.

Okay.

But anyone who thinks the god of the Bible actually exists...and who tells us he does not fear that god...is just trying to kid us.

Quote:

The idea of infinite punishment for finite sin is the height of sadistic incredulity.

It certainly is sadistic. But that is what the god seems to have in store for people...and just because the Jehovah's Witnesses have managed to work out loopholes...does not mean the thrust is in that direction.

But apparently we do agree: If the general notion of the god is correct, the god is disgusting and unworthy of any worship.

Quote:

I wonder about the mindset of those who would equate that with a 'god of love'. And I rejoice that neither of them is God.

Which is another way of saying that your guesses are better than their guesses???

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank,

I read you and agree--it is hard for us to understand why things have happened as they have. I don't have answers for everything. I just have thankfully seen the merciful side of God and not the other side. I don't want to experience His wrath as it would be more than this flesh or soul could handle.

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@Enaj,

I know...Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic!

The reality is that my Hebrew is minimal, my Greek is non-existent and well as for Aramaic, forget it!

I don't speak any of those languages therefore I choose to read the English version of the Bible.

We try to take as many commentaries of the scripture to heart but the best way to find out what the scripture says is to get to know the AUTHOR!

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@neologist,

God is the GOD of Hell as He is the GOD of heaven. --What is so hard to understand of that?

Neo, let me ask you something...do you disregard all scripture that even alludes to hell fire? I know you see it as the grave--that it is--but why did Jesus Himself say you should fear God who can destroy both body (death) and soul (spiritual death) in hell? If hell is only the grave why did Jesus refer to the death of the soul in Matthew 10:28?

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How can Jesus be god, if god himself doesn't acknowledge him
www.algenaun.com

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@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

God is the GOD of Hell as He is the GOD of heaven. --What is so hard to understand of that?

Hmm. Then what happens when death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire?

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Neo, let me ask you something...do you disregard all scripture that even alludes to hell fire? I know you see it as the grave--that it is--but why did Jesus Himself say you should fear God who can destroy both body (death) and soul (spiritual death) in hell? If hell is only the grave why did Jesus refer to the death of the soul in Matthew 10:28?

Your soul is you. So, when your soul dies, you are dead. One of the words translated as hell is gehenna. It refers to the valley of Hinnom, the place outside the walls of Jerusalem, a garbage dump where fires were kept burning constantly with liberal applications of sulphur. It was there that bodies of dead animals and criminals were thrown for complete destruction. The bodies, of course, were destroyed; but the souls were no longer able to feel pain,

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@CoolServant,

I don't waste my time with outside links. Make your own argument.

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Quote:

Neologist asked me: ..wouldn't you say it was either Satan or one of his demons running the show? WT says it is God stoking the coals. Is he right?
Just trying to get an idea of what you fire and brimstone guys actually believe.

Forget the stereotype "flames" image of hell.
Nobody knows what shape or form hell is, we only know that it'll definitely be a nasty place. In the film 'Brainstorm', Chris Walken gets this brief glimpse of it-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Brainstorm1_zps44b04843.jpg~original

No sweat, Jesus said-"I've come to save the world", but if people don't WANT to be saved, he can't help them, seems fair enough to me.

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@neologist,

God will be the one to cast it into the Lake of Fire. David Himself said if I ascend into heaven God is there. If I go to the bell of hell He is there.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Forget the stereotype "flames" image of hell.

You mean the one you posted? Why did you post it then?

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Nobody knows what shape or form hell is, we only know that it'll definitely be a nasty place. . . .

What about the "hell" Israelites referred to as 'sheol'?

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@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

God will be the one to cast it into the Lake of Fire. David Himself said if I ascend into heaven God is there. If I go to the bell of hell He is there.

But, David was referring to 'sheol' which was known to the Hebrews only as a place of unconsciousness and where those awaiting resurrection existe in God's memory.

Quote:

13 O that in She′ol you would conceal me,
That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
14 If an able-bodied man dies can he live again?
All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait,
Until my relief comes.
15 You will call, and I myself shall answer you.
For the work of your hands you will have a yearning. (Job 13: 13-15)

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Quote:

Neologist asked: What about the "hell" Israelites referred to as 'sheol'?

Are you a Jew or a Christian mate?
No true Christian gives a rats ass what other religions think of hell or anything else, because Jesus trumps them all, it's not rocket science.. Smile

Jesus said: "You have ONE teacher, ME" (Matt 23:10)

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Well, Jesus was Hebrew, right? So wouldn't he have an accurate understanding of hell?

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Other than by blindly guessing...how do any of you KNOW that there even is a GOD...so that the discussion about whether or not Jesus is GOD makes any sense at all.

That notion that there is a GOD...is nothing more than a blind guess...right?

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@neologist,

I know for one thing, we can choose to sooth our minds with the idea that there is no eternal fire and live happily ever after. However, the scriptures concerning the Rich man and Lazarus compel us to live in such a manner that we certainly don't find out the hard way whether there is a hell with fire or not.

Always erring on the side of the worst case scenario seems to be a safer bet than to adopt the nonchalant attitude of those who deny its very existence.

There have been many throughout history that have discounted realities due to some ideology or another. In the end the truth always prevails.

I just find it really hard to believe that Jesus our Lord would make mention of hell in the manner that He did if it were nothing more than the grave. The Apostle Paul speaks of the victory that Jesus had over death, hell and the grave. Are these all one in the same or are they three distinct places for the departed from the earth?

I would suggested that you take the scriptures in their entirety and not discount what is written on the paper.

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@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

. . . . The Apostle Paul speaks of the victory that Jesus had over death, hell and the grave. Are these all one in the same . . . .?

Yes. To say otherwise would be slander to God who, when commenting on the sacrifices to Moloch and Ashtoreth (Easter) caused Jeremiah to write

Quote:

They have built the high places of To′pheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hin′nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart. (Jeremiah 7:31)

Note the reference to Hinnom a place rightly designated as a garbage pit.

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It is unnerving...and more than just a bit hilarious...that you guys would continue to argue the minutia...and differences of interpretation of Biblical passages...

...but not deal realistically with the underlying assumption of the discussion.

That notion that there is a GOD in the first place (forgetting about its nature and its composition)...is nothing more than a blind guess.

Isn't that right?

And if you say "No, it is not"...how can you possible make it more?

Anything you could possibly offer MAY BE delusion...and there is no way you can determine if it is or is not.

Why not deal with that underlying assumption?

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