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Sun 4 Apr, 2004 11:06 pm
As you'll see from my name, I'm not from Australia, but I live in Sydney, and have done for about 14months. Its a different place to live than the UK, but not just for the weather. I still find myself out of sorts with the country and have spent about a year trying to collect my thoughts on why. They're not detailed, but are general ideas. I'd like some feedback as to whether I should be on the next plane out of here, or do Aussies also think along similar lines. I'm writing this here, cos I'm not brave/stupid enough to do this in the pub.
Beaurocracy. I thought this was a peculiarly British thing that Australians would have gotten rid of as soon as poss. But instead the country is completely bound by it. Different rules for different states, not just driving licences, but real hard law such as employment legislation. I realise some of you from the US might not see a problem here, but Australia is a country of only 20 million. Surely the money raised here would be better spent developing the country. The level of beaurocracy leads to slow business.
Tax. The country has a high tax level, to pay for the beaurocracy obviously. But recently the country was reported to be on target for a surplus of $8billion. How can this be so, in a country of just 20m?? And the need for all to do a tax return, which virtually guarantees some sort of tax return seems an additional unrequired burden on the population.
Quality v quantity. This is the one that gets me every time I think about it. The overwhelming sensation is that it is quantity that counts - how many qualifications have you got? How much is that? How many can I get? These are the questions I hear being posed. The most notable exception to this is food and drink. Pretty much without fault in every state - great value.
These are just three of my thought-areas. I'm open to being shot down on any of them, and I would really love to know what people think. I do like living here, really, I just can't help thinking it could be better. Have I just got some sort of out-of-towner's eyesight problem, or do Aussies notice some of this too? Finally, apologies if I've come across as the Arrogant Whinging Pom, but these are my thoughts.
This is interesting - and difficult - since it is hard to "see" what one is accustomed to.
I will be back later when I can think - meanwhile, welcome!
Just a thought, by the way - re staying/not - you are still in the very early stages of migration - if you had good reasons for coming, I'd give it longer. Dunno how many folk i have known to go "home' - only to find the new country was home after all!
after meeting a number of a2k'ers from oz, i feel for you.......i really do.
dlowan - thanks for the welcome. Its not a question of whether I stay or not, I like living here - the lifestyle is so much better than anywhere else I've been. But I can't see why some of the systems here are here - the benefits of them pass me by. I think my thoughts really are summarised in the throwaway sentence I wrote towards the end - I really do think this country could be so much better (I know, better to whom? Why be better?), with not too much thought or effort, and it wrankles that its not.
pueo - hey, its not all bad here!! Even the people!!!
A few musings.
Beaurocracy: Before Australia became a country the states were seperate colonies. The state governments agreed to join up but only on the understanding that they would maintain a high degree of control. If it hadn't been structured the way it was then the states would never have agreed to federation in the first place.
Tax: We have a high tax intake because we have things like universal healthcare and education (sorta), and also because we have a small population spread over a massive amount of land. Infrastructure costs are therefore much higher per capita than in places like Britain. The $8 billion surplus you mentioned is by no means usual. The current government likes to save money up until election year, that way they can announce a whole heap of new policies just before everyone votes. It's sneaky and it works because the average joe doesn't pay any attention EXCEPT during election year.
Quality vs Quantity: I notice the same thing. About the food as well. Pommy food is TERRIBLE.
Welcome to A2K and to Australia imapom. Hope you like both.
Adrian - cheers for the musings. And I pretty much agree with your view on Pommy food - but it has been getting better!! I'd still rather eat in Oz than in Britain. Except for Indian food...
But regards the Tax and Beaurocracy thing - surely there will come a time when Australia is one country. I know I'm probably talking out of my hat with this, but I would have thought that a smaller beaurocracy would need less tax to run it.
From a Californian, I have to add that some of our most intelligent posters on a2k are those from australia (and new zealand). Oh, and, uh, guam... (kidding, pueo)
ossobuco wrote:From a Californian, I have to add that some of our most intelligent posters on a2k are those from australia (and new zealand). Oh, and, uh, guam... (kidding, pueo)
i agree with you about the aussie's osso, of course if repeat this i'll deny everything
have to disagree about guam a2ker's though, nothing but wacko's out there.
before i forget my manners again, welcome to a2k imapom!
And the New Zealanders Peuo?
imapom wrote:Adrian - cheers for the musings. And I pretty much agree with your view on Pommy food - but it has been getting better!! I'd still rather eat in Oz than in Britain. Except for Indian food...
But regards the Tax and Beaurocracy thing - surely there will come a time when Australia is one country. I know I'm probably talking out of my hat with this, but I would have thought that a smaller beaurocracy would need less tax to run it.
The beaurocracy IS one of our biggest problems. In fact, if you take into account beaurocrats in working in revenue negative areas, the governments (local, state, and federal), the unemployed, the pensioners, those in full time education, and simply those being supported by others, I think that only about 1/3 of the available workforce is actually supporting the rest of the nation. It's a wonder our taxes aren't higher than what they are. And as you've pointed tax (especially personal tax rates) is already pretty high.
Hello, imapom! Greetings from Melbourne. A pleasure to meet you.
Yes, I agree with you, personal taxes are high. And then you throw in the GST. <sigh>
I hate beaurocracy anywhere, not just Oz.
$0 - $6000 .................. Nil
$6001 - $21600 ........... Nil plus 17c for each $ over $6000
$21601 - $52000.......... $2652 plus 30c for each $ over $21600
$52001 - $62500.......... $11772 plus 42c for each $ over $52000
$62501 and over ......... $16182 plus 47c for each $ over $62500.
Plus a 1.5% medicare levy for those who have private health insurance. 2.5% for those who don't, plus a 10% gst on most goods and services.
Thats it - I am not moving to Oz !!!!
You also read it before I added the part I forgot about-the medicare levy.
Adrian's point is one which has applied wherever former colonies have formed national governments. The Canadian federation is equally beset by such sensitivities of sovereignty, and the most fundamental aspects of the American constitution are a product of suspicions and jealousies among the states. By contrast, Enland's government is one which makes many of us from such nations shudder--your bureaucracy is from the top down, and therefore inescpable. In the US or Canada, at any event (can't speak to this issue in Oztralia) if one doesn't like the sales tax, the property taxes, the income taxes or the laws, one can move to states or provinces without such taxes, or with taxes less burdensome. In the case of all three nations, they became nations by consent, rather than being obliged to accept the fait accompli of centuries of rule from above. Many of us prefer it that way. That the United States filled up faster and to a larger extent than the other two has more to do with climate and "accessibility" than anything else. For much of Canada's history, Americans were the largest immigrant group. In the last 50 years, for both Canada and Oztralia there has been a steadily growiung immigration, and very diverse immigration. The systems in place work well enough to afford to all a prosperity which leads many from throughout the entire world to want to live in these nations.
I support our "high" taxes - and I am paying the top rate, for a while.
I am only too happy to pay for things like medicare, and education, and social security for those who need it, and for children's services etc, and such.
Adrian is quite right about how the state differences came to be enshrined. I see good and bad - government closer to people, and responsive to their needs, is a good thing, I think. I would HATE to have only the Feds at present!!!!! Imagine the labour laws, for instance. And how everything would be even more Sydney-centric.
it is costly, though.
Eve wrote:And the New Zealanders Peuo?
dlowan says that i shouldn't talk to you people.
Yes, there are many levels of beaurocracy:
Federal, state & local council .... Not much fun when they pass the buck on which is responsible for what.
Thanks to everyone for the rational explanations - I'm grateful that I've not been asked (yet!) if I know where the airport is!
OK, so beaurocracy and taxes are scourges of any modern country, but I still don't understand the need for some State-based legislation. Two examples - first, the minimum wage is set not only by location but also by job spec. Surely two people living in the same place need the same minimum to live, whether its Sydney, Perth or Katherine. Secondly, why are cars (and drivers) registered (licensed) on a state-by-state basis - are State roads funded entirely from State coffers?
And here's a third, from personal experience. I work for a TAFE and we have to be audited, annually, by every state in which we wish to operate (currently 5), even though we are delivering a national qualification. Why? Waste of time, money and effort.
And believe me, I am only too well aware of the buck-passing that goes on between levels of beaurocracy - 10 years experience in local Govt & Govt agencies for my sins.
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