Pakistani Man Gets Life Sentence for Following False Prophet

Hmm, Chief Seattle advocates apartheid (separate ways of development for different races)?

dys, That revelation by Chief Seattle is not confined to the Americas. The aboriginies of Australia were treated as sub-human animals by the Europeans, and slautered without any christian guilt. c.i.

c.i. its not easy to feel guilt when you KNOW god's on your side.

C.I., why do you call Aussies Europeans? They are White Australians. Their ancestors were Europeans, but not themselves.

steissd, Most of the current population have European ancestry, but when they slautered the aboriginies, they were immigrants - mostly from England and Ireland. The term "European" was used by the lecturer of that information on my visit to Australia. He has European, Polynesian and aborigine blood. c.i.

So, once more I want to underline: barbarism and atrocities of the White Christians pertain to remote past. Right now Whites, Polynesians and aborigines peacefully coexist in the Commonwealth of Australia.

As late as in the 1950's children, including one of my best friends from school, were taken from their families and tribes and placed in more suitable homes.

I'd hardly call that the remote past. Steissd, If you'd read our other topic on Native Americans, you'd find that the agreements which our country holds with the various tribes, you'd find that the deceit and financial atrocities continue.

You have apparently never studied in of the various tribes since you use such a broad brush in describing their beliefs, which as far as I can see, have no basis in any reality except perhaps a movie or TV show. Before you continue, you ought to research a little. Aztecs were totally different from Inuit, totally different from Cherokee, totally different from Blackfeet, totally different from Hopi... the list goes on and on. What is amazing, in fact, is that a few tribes, the Athabascans and the Navajo, for example, have a similar language and set of beliefs (one is from Alaska and Canada, the other from Arizona and New Mexico).

steissd, I don't know what you mean by "remote past," but the aboriginies were just allowed to have citizenship in their own country in 1963, and they've occupied Australia for over five thousand years. c.i.

Well, 40 years ago the world was not exactly the same it is now. One more thing: aborigines occupied Australia for thousands years without sharing it with anyone, but they failed to found any state there (Europeans did not come across with anything resembling Maya or Incas empires when they first entered Australia). They had all the independence they wanted, but they did not use it for developing science, technology, finance, any attribute of civilization. They lived for thousands years without any development. For reasons I fail to understand, they stayed in the Stone Age for such a long time. This made it impossible to grant them the same civil rights the civilized people possessed: they merely would not know what to do with these, since they lacked any experience of being citizens of any country. For the same reasons small kids are not enfranchised anywhere in the world, and their property rights are limited.
I guess, they reached by 1963 some certain level of social development that justified granting them citizenship and civil rights.

Dyslexia is correct, at least as his statements apply to the Navajo after being released for captivity at Ft. Sumner. Their children were taken from their homes and placed in boarding schools and they were denied the practice of their beliefs. They were required to speak English, which I feel is sound policy, but I believe they were also prohibited their own language. I won't swear to the latter. Web cites I cannot provide, but this is documented in "The Book of the Navajo" and also several other sources. I also believe this based on personal conversations with members of the tribe.

Pifka, the Athabascan language is not limited to Navajo and Tlinget (sp?). It is also the language of the Apache tribes, of which there are many. As I have been told, the Apache speak the same language - they just talk faster.

Not claiming expertise here, but I did work with tribal members on the Big Rez for over six years.

steissd, I think you'll fit in well with the Australian psyche. c.i.

Sorry, C.I., I fail to understand what do you mean: do the White Australians share my approach to the aborigines problem?

steissd, Your definition of "civilized people" is different from mine. Therefore, what you make of my previous post can be interpreted any way you please. c.i.

Which definition is going to be subjective, of course. I have never met a person who considered himself uncivilized.

I do not reduce definition of the civilized people to the White Europeans. Maya and Incas were civilized as well, unlike aborigines or Indians of the North of the USA and Canada before they first met the Europeans. There were Indian (I mean pertaining to India), Chinese, Japanese, ancient Egyptian, Arab and other non-European civilizations that had their own cultural, spiritual and technological achievements. But in case of aborigines we cannot discuss any civilization. They lived in the Stone Age before the continent was discovered, and the Europeans brought the modern world to them.

Roger -- that's right... I'd forgotten about the Apaches. Didn't know the difference was how fast they spoke -- that's funny!

I was thinking that the Cherokee also shared their language with some other tribe, but cannot remember who.

I am so sad to hear Steissd downgrade the Native American culture and consider it something to discard. It hurts me. A sad commentary from someone outside the United States. No wonder there were so many awful things done to people over the years. If you don't respect someone... and possibly consider them less than human, then what do we expect? We would treat dogs better.

Oh, but Pifka, make no mistake. I do not idolize the Navajo, nor Native Americans in general. The group I worked with had some very good - even noble - qualities. They had their faults as well. On balance, though, meeting them was the best part of working at the Four Corners Power Plant. The money wasn't bad either.

roger, But couldn't you also say the same for your 'own' race and culture? c.i.

Well, of course I could, c.i., but why. Nobody has been idolizing the Anglo element of society lately. If they had, I might post the same caveat.

i was once sitting with a friend who was a Taos Pueblo amerind in the plaza and we were talking about Nixon and the Viet Nam war and a tourist came up and said " hey indian i take your picture?" so my friend turned to me and said "hey, its 5 bucks, be right back"