20
   

What does forgiveness really mean?

 
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2013 04:45 pm
@Logicus,
No.
It is the ability to accept the misgivings in all.
Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Jul, 2013 05:57 pm
@mark noble,
Forgiveness has degrees in an individual. Some can forgive someone punching them, but cannot forgive atrocities inflicted on their loved ones. Some can forgive people whole-heartedly.
igm
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Jul, 2013 06:34 am
@Logicus,
Logicus wrote:

Forgiveness has degrees in an individual. Some can forgive someone punching them, but cannot forgive atrocities inflicted on their loved ones. Some can forgive people whole-heartedly.

Everyone can change. One can become more forgiving or less over the course of one's life... I'd opt for becoming more forgiving in a gradual sustained way. Quick changes are often quickly reversed.

Logicus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jul, 2013 01:38 pm
@igm,
Agreed.
0 Replies
 
aanto88
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2014 07:36 pm
I thought about this question for a while after I read it. True forgiveness must be about self-discovery. When you truly forgive, you are not defined by what was done to you, be it positively (becoming stronger, working to helping other victims in the same situation) or negatively ( becoming weaker/wallowing in self pity and pain). In that regard, it's different from 'overcoming' what was done to you. Forgiveness is more powerful. It's a leap to a different thought paradigm, a different emotional landscape, a different philosophy of life that renders what was done to you, nil. Like it never happened. It stems from the understanding that there is an penultimate order to the universe that lies with God, that all realities devoid of oneness with your creator is relative. Hence, you must not fault anyone (including the perpetrator) for not sharing your reality (your pain, your perception of justice, your desires, your goals). There must be a distinct awareness that whatever reality that allowed you to be a victim to it previously does not exist within you anymore. That is, you become cognizant of all social, psychological, spiritual forces and beliefs that perpetuate your victimhood while simultaneously recognizing its folly. Finally, you're hopeful because God has given you the rest of your life to find Him. To me, finding him would mean experiencing Him at all moments, everywhere, through everyone (including your perpetrator). Without these insights, true forgiveness will remain elusive.
0 Replies
 
carloslebaron
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2014 09:43 pm
Forgiveness is learn to let it go.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2014 07:21 am
@Logicus,
Logicus wrote:

Forgiveness is a precious thing that cannot be given to everybody.


I disagree.

Here is my method. It is a line of reasoning.

I start with..

Premise 1. everyone wants to be happy or have contentment within their life.

Premise 2. everyone comes up with methods of obtaining happiness or contentment.

Premise 3. the method a person selects to obtain their happiness or contentment can cause you or others problems as a result.

Premise 4. If everyone was by default already content and happy in their life they wouldn't do things to cause you problems.

Premise 5. Some people purposely select methods they know will cause problems for others because the desire for contentment or happiness is over powering or valued more than the harm they are causing.

Premise 6. Some people unknowingly cause problems because they do not factor in the potential to cause others problems in their pursuit of their happiness or contentment.

Premise 7. Realize that you and everyone else are striving for contentment or happiness as goals to achieve but no one knows the best method that does not cause others problems, if we did then no one would ever cause problems for others unless their contentment or happiness is based on causing problems as the goal.

Conclusion: When you see that everyone is in the same trap that we live our lives in seeking happiness and contentment for ourselves that we will occasionally cause problems for others both willingly and unknowingly. This gives you a basis for forgiveness because you can see that even though they are causing you problems they just want to be content or happy and they not necessarily would have caused you these problems if they were happy or content to begin with.

It is not a perfect line of reasoning but it helps you to put yourself in other's shoes to understand their motivation for their actions no matter how cruel or wicked they might seem. You will see that they were seeking happiness or contentment but went about it with a bad method to obtain it. Feel sympathy for them and empathy for our shared curse that we all just want to be content or happy with our lives.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2014 09:09 am
@Krumple,
So, then, our major problem is simply the ubiquity of conflicting interests? I would add that we do not pursue enlightened self-interests. AND forgiveness is a matter of the latter.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2014 10:25 am
@Rickoshay75,
Quote:
What does forgiveness really mean?
It means that u r not going to avenge yourself upon an offender.





David
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2014 10:15 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Forgiveness is freedom from poison.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2014 10:41 am
@Logicus,
Rubbish!
Forgiveness is "OVERLOOKING A TRANSGRESSION" Nothing more or less.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2014 11:18 am

Quote:
What does forgiveness really mean?
It means magnanimity.





David
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 12:38 pm
I will provide 2 answers to this one...
One with my left side of the brain and the other with my right side...

Left side says forgiveness is presumption n to much self esteem...

My right side says I recognize myself in the others mistakes. It could be me was the context the same. To forgive is to reconcile ourselves with our own limitations. We forgive the others when we first are able to forgive ourselves.

But the true question is...Is there anyone at fault in the first place ?...
...our own nature being what it is makes me doubt we can be faulted for being what we are. Can we change it ? Yes when we can, when we learn, but equally, we fault when we haven't learned yet. Is that a fault ? I think not. Human mind is eager to learn. When it doesn't its not fault of its choosing but fault of its shortcomings.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 12:51 pm
@Logicus,
Forgiveness is the best choice in most circumstances, because hate only affects you.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 11:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
And when one realizes how problematical is the assumption of free will it is much easier to forgive.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:59 am
@JLNobody,
Absolutely correct !
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:04 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Maybe then 'Forgiveness' doesn't exist. For, regardless as to how we deal or infuse with external transgression, we, ultimately, absorb and reprogramme/am (Incorporate), adjusting to balance these variable exposures.
Thus - Infractions of 'any' X magnitude = response - POS/NEG x magnitude of expectation.

poetic.
The more you love, the more you loathe (And vice versa)

One can never overlook a transgression, because acknowledgement of that transgression is absorbed by one's psyche and redefines one's nature or worldview, or both.

The truth is - LIVING-THINGS DO NOT FORGIVE! - THEY EVOLVE!
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 05:22 pm
To my mind, forgiveness is something we do for ourselves. It is about letting go of feelings that hurt us.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 05:44 pm
@Cyracuz,
Sometimes! There is also a trust issue more often than not.
I can forgive, but....... it doesn't mean to let someone off the hook.

There is the mother who forgives the drunk driver who killed her child,
but he won't be off the hook. There is the husband whose wife forgives him for his infidelities, yet she still divorces him. There is the business man who forgives his partner for embezzling money, yet he has to resign from the business. There are many examples where forgiveness still leads to an undesirable outcome.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 05:53 pm
@CalamityJane,
True, but there are also those who forgive completely. I remember a trial some time ago where the mother forgave the killer and asked judge for leniency.

Quote:
Mother Forgives Daughter's Killer, Gets Him Lenient Sentence and Opportunity to Rebuild Life
 

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