15
   

We're from the government and we're here to help....

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 12:15 pm
@firefly,
that letter was after the fact and not directed to the students...and why did it not include the 34 questions? I bet it is because they would piss people off but this letter was clearly not an example of reasonable transparency. also the adminstration is changing and over half the board has changed in the last 2 months, what happens going forwards is anyones guess but for damn sure stakeholders should be very clear that what was done this year was wrong and will not be tolorated.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 12:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
problems with thoughts and feelings are almost completely up to the individual to decide. that is the difference between being free people and being not free people

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

So you'd rather the school didn't find out that a student was so depressed that they might be suicidal? Or that a student was struggling with anger and violent fantasies that included killing people?

You don't think the school should make efforts to identify students who are having difficulty dealing with their emotions, or thoughts, or social relationships, and then offer them, and their parents, support services, or appropriate referrals, or whatever else they might need?

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 12:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
I think that what this teacher did was motivated by the desire to show integrity and also to preserve his relationship with the students. the board should be giving him a teacher of the year award for service above the call of duty. I had some teachers like him, and they had my highest regards even if I whole hartedly disagreed with their politics. I loved teachers who pushed me to question and to think and who showed that they had respect for their students as individuals.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 12:30 pm
@firefly,
as I have said no...the authorities should say " we are here to help if you want help" all the way up to when someone threatens to hurt themselve or others. Full. Stop.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 12:34 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
What on earth is that supposed to mean?

It means he's trying to blind you with scien... I mean, political philosophy.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 12:37 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

firefly wrote:
What on earth is that supposed to mean?

It means he's trying to blind you with scien... I mean, political philosophy.

I can speak for myself, so how about you let me do that and I will let you speak for yourself, MKay?
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 12:41 pm


kinda creepy but very appropriate...
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 12:45 pm
@Rockhead,
schools being agents of the state in the conduct of this idiot "war on drugs" is just one of many ways they have dithered away their authority and also do such a poor job of educating as they present astronomical bills for their services year after year.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
that letter was after the fact and not directed to the students...and why did it not include the 34 questions?

The letter was not after the fact. Are you thinking at all? If it was after the fact, it wouldn't be offering the parent the option of opting their child out. Rolling Eyes

The letter was directed at anyone reading it, including the students--it was also posted on the school's Web site. And the parent could also have discussed it with the student.

I'm under the impression, from what I've read, that this wasn't the first time they've done an SEL survey at Batavia. This was the first time, I believe, that the survey wasn't anonymous, and it was the first time this particular survey instrument was used. And the reason this survey wasn't anonymous was because that allowed for monitoring progress in SEL areas, for both individuals and groups, by repeated yearly surveys with the same instrument, and it allowed for the identification of students who might be having difficulty in social/emotional areas. There was adequate justification given for why this type of test was being used--it enabled meeting a number of goals, both to satisfy state requirements, and to provide benefits to students.

It's already been explained in this thread why the survey questions themselves cannot be made public by the school--they are the commercial property of Multi-Health Systems, Inc., and MHS has proprietary rights over their BIMAS testing instrument, which is what Batavia used, and they do not allow the test to be publicly displayed because that can affect the validity and reliability of the test--and that's standard procedure on the part of psychological test providers.
Quote:
what was done this year was wrong and will not be tolerated

I don't know that what was done this year was wrong. I just think it could have been done better--with better, and clearer communication. And the greater transparency that the Board has already demanded from the Superintendent's office will no doubt be carried out in the future. I think this was more likely a case of poor communication rather than a deliberate attempt to deceive. There seems to be general agreement in Batavia, even from the teacher who was reprimanded, that the school system was trying to do a good thing by using a survey of this type.

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:17 pm
@firefly,
in other words this was the first time they did a screening and not a survey Drunk

there you go again playing funny with word definitions as it suits your purposes....thanks for the timely illustration of your pattern of dishonesty!
Thomas
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
You misunderstand. I wasn't speaking for you, I was ridiculing you.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:21 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
think this was more likely a case of poor communication rather than a deliberate attempt to deceive. There seems to be general agreement in Batavia, even from the teacher who was reprimanded, that the school system was trying to do a good thing by using a survey of this type.


More likely by claiming to the community they was on top of the drug problem they was looking at doing good things for their own political futures and not the children futures with paperwork existing admitting to drug use in the hands of the government/school system that could foreclosed their futures.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:23 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

You misunderstand. I wasn't speaking for you, I was ridiculing you.

I am not sure how being a dick helps you here, but what ever floats your boat.
Rockhead
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
it helps to lighten the mood between your screeds.

kinda like when you mangle the meaning of a big word.

little chuckles are good for the soul...
engineer
 
  7  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:30 pm
@firefly,
It's taken me a while to get through the thread, but I think several of the points that have been brought up are off base.
- The students knew they didn't have to participate: Students are not routinely in the position of not participating in school testing. I think the teacher was absolutely correct in reminding them that participation on this test was optional. Just because a note was sent out or something was placed on a website doesn't mean that the students knew or recognized their rights here.
- The information is private: The school is an extension of the government. If the school has evidence of illegal actions and does not report it to the police, they are liable. If the police suspected drug use, could they subpoena the school questionaire information? I think that they could and the school would turn over the data.
- The students are not incriminating themselves if they confess to criminal actions on this questionaire: I think it likely they are. If the information is voluntarily provided, they have no protection and they should have no reason to believe that a government questionaire won't be used by government agencies. The teacher was once again correct in informing them of his concern in that direction.
- The teacher implied the school board had nefarious motives: Not that I read. He expressed concerns over the students admitting to illegal actions and reminded them that the questionaire was optional.
- Revealing the questions ahead of time would compromise the test: This is not a quiz testing knowledge. The results don't change if you give people a chance to see the questions ahead of time. I don't know that sending out the questions ahead of time is required, but I don't buy that it ruins the test.
- Putting names on the test allows the district to show it is providing services: Only if there is no confidentiality.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:35 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

it helps to lighten the mood between your screeds.

kinda like when you mangle the meaning of a big word.

little chuckles are good for the soul...

so you add nothing to this thread, as is normal for you, hostility cloaked in sarcasm is all you have to offer. it is disturbing that Thomas has sunk into your gutter though...he used to be a lot better.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:42 pm
@hawkeye10,
I've found you the perfect avatar...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuNlmpkDz5bOSBMl4Jn9gYHsPfMZOQEMSiDSPRQhy5L3gYIi3E8Q
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:48 pm
@Rockhead,
my theory is that you dont have kids, will never have kids, dont give a **** about kids, so this thread to you is nothing but a place to spread around your ugliness. you are one of the most offensive people around here because you dont care about either ideas or other people.

go do your act someplace else.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 01:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
in other words this was the first time they did a screening and not a survey

No, there may have been little difference between this year's test and past tests, in terms of screening vs survey, except this one wouldn't be anonymous so they could identify the students with problems in social/emotional areas.

You are hung up on the issue of substance use. That pertained to only about 3 of the 34 questions on the survey.

You seem not to be following the information that's already been posted in this thread. They made clear to the parents which questionnaire would be used--the BIMAS. And the parents could have gotten more information about it, just as I did.

The BIMAS - Behavior Intervention Monitoring Assessment System--is a 34 question test that yields measurement scales--
Behavioral Concern Scales, to identify risks (things like anger management, bullying, substance abuse, negative affects like anxiety and depression, and cognitive/attention problems like organization, planning, etc.---
and
Adaptive Scales, to identify areas of strength and improvement in Social Functioning (friendship maintenance, communication, etc.) and Academic Functioning--academic performance, attendance, ability to follow directions, etc.)
Quote:
there you go again playing funny with word definitions as it suits your purposes....

I'm not playing around with word definitions--I actually made the effort to find out about the test, and what it measures, rather than working from the ignorance base you seem to prefer. The BIMAS is a survey instrument which screens for problems, or at risk factors, of various sorts.

And the specific test chosen does seem to be a good fit for what the school system was trying to accomplish in terms of being able to monitor progress on a yearly basis.
Quote:
BHS Social-Emotional Survey

All BHS students will be taking a 34-question survey during their 3rd block class that evaluates their social-emotional perceptions. Please click here by April 17th if you do not want your student to take this assessment.

Why are we doing this? In addition to the Illinois Common Core Learning Standards, school districts are required to provide instruction and monitor student progress on the Illinois Social Emotional Learning (SEL) Standards (click here to view the standards).

Over the past several years, Student Services Staff have reviewed and researched a variety of tools intended to monitor student performance relative to the SEL standards.

What is this assessment? The Behavior Intervention Monitoring Assessment System (BIMAS) was chosen to be utilized to monitor student progress on the SEL standards.
The BIMAS is designed to be used for screening, progress monitoring, outcome
assessment, and program evaluation within the Response to Intervention (RTI)
framework.

How will the results be utilized? Batavia High School will use the BIMAS to monitor students’ progress in the areas of social and emotional development. Results of the BIMAS will be analyzed at a building level to assist staff in planning and implementation of social emotional supports to help all students grow to their fullest potential. It is a systematic process of detecting students who are struggling behaviorally and are at-risk for experiencing a range of negative short- and long-term outcomes. If your child is found to be at risk and is not currently receiving social-emotional supports within the school, a member of the building’s Student Services Team will notify a parent to discuss options for support.
http://bhs.bps101.net/bhs-social-emotional-survey


It's also clear, from the above statement, that the test couldn't possibly be anonymous--otherwise it wouldn't identify specific children at risk so their parents could be contacted. However, they did fail to make that explicit, and that was somewhat negligent on their part, but it certainly doesn't suggest they were trying to deliberately mislead anyone.


boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Jun, 2013 02:21 pm
@engineer,
Thanks for that great post, engineer. You've managed to voice a lot of the things that were bothering me about the survey and the discussion here.

Kids don't know that they can opt out of many tests the school gives. Parents don't know either. When they find out that they can they're often afraid to. I talk to a lot of people about this.

Plus, by sending an email and posting it on the school web site they're assuming that everyone has computer access. This isn't true even in fairly wealthy areas like the district we're in.

Schools are mandatory reporters so it seems if they knew a kid was doing drugs or drinking or having "bad emotions" wouldn't the school be required to notify the police?
 

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