35
   

Did Jesus Actually Exist?

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2014 11:09 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I have looked for scientists who would doubt the historicity of Jesus and haven't been able to find one. If you ever find one, pray tell. Every source I look at says: all historians agree that some dude existed.


You are full of it and once more you are the one that make the statement that scientists and scholars are in vast agreement over the issue of Jesus being a real person and you can not get out of it by making another unfounded statement so let see those polls.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2014 11:16 am
@farmerman,
Ok Farmerman it had indeed been debunked with the man who came up with it arrested for forgery.

Quote:


http://blogs.artinfo.com/secrethistoryofart/2012/03/08/famous-fakes-the-james-ossuary/

It was too good to be true, because it wasn’t true. In March 2003, Israeli authorities arrested Golan for suspicion of forgery and dealing in fake antiquities. A board of IAA experts determined that, while the ossuary itself was an authentic, ancient artifact, the inscription had been added to it in the modern era. After the natural aging that occurred to the limestone box after centuries buried in a damp cave, someone had added the inscription on the back side of the box, covering the freshly-cut lettering with a homemade “patina” of age based on a mixture of water and ground chalk. A five-man team of forgers, led by Golan, were found to have faked a number of biblical artifacts by adding inscriptions to authentic objects. A search of a storage facility rented by Golan unearthed forged ancient seals and a series of inscriptions in various stages of production, as well as engraving tools and soil from excavation sites that would have been rubbed into the inscriptions to give the illusion of age and long burial
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2014 01:49 pm
@Olivier5,
I did my homework, started at the Wiki English article about the Jesus Myth Theory, and looked up all the listed modern proponents of that theory.

The results are belows: a bunch of writers, journalists, theologians, geologists, priests and English teachers. Same pattern among the French writers mentioned on the same article in French wiki, BTW. The academia shuns the idea, but it still exists in popular culture and on internet.

The only fellow listed in those articles with relevant academic credentials is Richard Carrier with a PhD in ancient history. His blog says that he is currently publishing "the first comprehensive pro-Jesus myth book ever published by a respected academic press and under formal peer review." If he is right, the Jesus myth thesis has never until now been published in a scientific, peer-reviewed publication... That's how marginal and minuscule the Jesus Myth Theory is in academia. NEVER PUBLISHED. Don't they say: "publish or perish"?

I'll try to find Carrier's book all the same. Hopefully he makes a better case than the hardened polemists here.

About HARDENED POLEMISTS and the phenomenon of historical hyper criticism (doubting beyond reasonable doubt), I came across this gem of epistemology that explains everything about A2K dynamics in general and on this thread in particular (in French):
http://www.phdn.org/histoire/hypercritique.html

--------

Authors listed in: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory

G. A. Wells: professor of German

Christopher Hitchens: journalist

Tom Harpur: priest, columnist and theologian

Michael Martin: philosopher

Alvar Ellegård: English teacher

Thomas L. Thompson: biblical scholar and theologian (not actually a Jesus denier)

Thomas L. Brodie: dominican priest

Robert M. Price: theologian

Earl Doherty: writer; has stated he has a bachelor's degree in Ancient History and Classical Languages,[2] but no completed advanced degrees.

D.M. Murdock: American author, best known under her pen name Acharya S -- no training in history


0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Oct, 2014 01:50 pm
@farmerman,
Never heard of it. And if it was true I would have.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 08:26 pm
Quote:
Predominance of the historicity thesis in French scholarship

The thesis denying the historicity of Jesus has been abandoned by French academic studies since 1933, thanks to the critical work of the secular historian Charles Guignebert. Daniel Marguerat, a Swiss Protestant, former professor of NT at the University of Lausanne, wrote that: "We are no longer in the age when Bruno Bauer (1840), or P. L. Couchoud (1937) went to great lengths to deny that Jesus had existed: Nowadays the debate is about the meaning of his actions, not his existence."[...]

Etienne Trocmé, a Protestant, President of the Un. of Humanities in Strasbourg, said that "these brilliant ideas of Couchoud’s have been easily refuted by Maurice Goguel ... and Alfred Loisy... They face two insurmountable difficulties: the absence of any denial of the existence of Jesus in ancient times — even among the opponents of Christianity and among those heretics that were the most eager to get rid of the humanity of Jesus — and then the Jewish and specifically Palestinian characteristics that abound in the Synoptic Gospels and make it impossible for them to be the belated creation of a largely Hellenized church. We wish the present epigones of Couchoud and Alfaric would stop rehashing arguments so entirely discredited, that even Soviet historians themselves do not support them any more".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Louis_Couchoud


BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 03:45 am
@Olivier5,
I find it highly amusing that you and others are so sure a man name Jesus existed with out any need of proof outside the religion writing of a cult.

At least ninety percents of the Jesus myths are pure fantasy and there is no reason I can see to assume that the other ten percents of the story relate to a real at one time living human being.

I still place the odds at 50/50 at best given the evidence or lack of same that had come down to us over this figure all tightly bound in myths.

There the strong impression Oliver5 that you and people like you have religion needs to try to convince the rest of us that at the very least a real person name Jesus was going around and preaching about love thy neighbor and such in that place and at that time.

One other fast comment if there was such a man who was teaching non-violence he surely did a **** poor job of founding a movement that would honor his teachings.

Whole communities of believers in him and his teaching were put to the sword by other believers over disagreements concerning minor dogmas of the cult.

In my opinion, the cult that came about in the Jesus name proved to be so violence on the whole that we all would have been far better off if the Romans had been able to wiped if off the face of the earth.

To this day we have cult members killing in the Jesus name and interfering with the teaching of science and so on.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 04:55 am
From Religious-Tolerance-dot-org, here is an interesting discussion of the historicity controversy regarding Jeebus. (It's in three parts, which will oblige the weary and the lazy to click on links to the second and third sections.)
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 04:58 am
@Setanta,
must not also forget those who actually give a ****.
timur
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 05:07 am
Contrary to what Oliver asserts, that's a lot of historians that deny the very existence of Jesus.

Here's a site where many of his arguments are easily demolished:

- Jesus never existed

At the bottom of this page, a list of scholars that doubt or deny that Jesus ever existed, and their works.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 05:16 am
@farmerman,
I suspect those jokers won't be clicking on the link in the first place.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:44 am
@BillRM,
And you still believe there's no such thing as human-induced global warming as well, because climate scientists cannot be trusted, right

You are so afraid of being lied too that you can never see the truth.

[The historian] must not adopt in front of witnesses from the past the sullen, cantankerous and finicky attitude of the bad cop who treats any person who is summoned to appear as a priori suspect and held to be guilty until proven innocent; such [an attitude], far from being a quality, would be for the historian a radical defect, making him virtually unable to recognize the real meaning, scope, and value of the documents he studies; Such an attitude is as dangerous in history that in everyday life, the fear of being fooled, this trait that Stendhal likes to lend to his characters ("I always assume that the person talking to me wants to fool me ..." ).

Henri Irénée MARROU, De la connaissance historique
timur
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:54 am
@Olivier5,
Anatole France wrote:
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:59 am
@timur,
Do you believe in human-induced global warming?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:03 am
@timur,
Can't find the list of authors in your link, which looks very unscientific to me. I bet they are a bunch of 'authors', philosopher, theologians and German teachers, just like the ones I debunked above...

The idea that Jesus never existed is a popular hoax. It has no space whatsoever in scientific circles. Like the ideas that the holocaust never happened or that there is no human-induced global warming, it is peddled by amateurs with an agenda, not by scientists.

You guys haven't done your homework yet. Go ahead, look around for a qualified historian or philologist supporting the Jesus myth theory. I dare you to find ONE, beside this young Carrier I talked about. Go ahead and find one peer reviewed journal article supporting one such 'myth theory'.

You won't find any, because they aren't any.

It's embarrassing for atheism to have such irrational, anti-science advocates. I wish you guys could grow up and not ridicule atheism every time you got a chance.
timur
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:17 am
@Olivier5,
We knew already that you are doing a poor job at looking for credible sources.

At least you should know a French author and philosopher with large academic credentials: Michel Onfray, 2005, Traité d'athéologie (2007 In Defence of Atheism) French philosopher argues for a positive atheism, debunking an historical Jesus along the way.

And at the bottom of the pages I provided a link to:
Quote:
For more than 200 years a minority of courageous scholars have dared to question the story of Jesus. Despite the risks of physical assault, professional ruin and social opprobrium, they have seriously doubted the veracity of the gospel saga, have peeled away the layers of fraud and deceit and eventually have challenged the very existence of the godman.


Hermann Samuel Reimarus (1694-1768).1778, On the Intention of Jesus and His Teaching. [link] Enlightenment thinker and professor of Oriental languages at the Hamburg Gymnasium, his extensive writings – published after his death – rejected 'revealed religion' and argued for a naturalistic deism. Reimarus charged the gospel writers with conscious fraud and innumerable contradictions.

Francois Marie Arouet (Voltaire) (1694-1778). [link] The most influential figure of the Enlightenment was educated at a Jesuit college yet concluded, "Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and bloody religion that has ever infected the world ... The true God cannot have been born of a girl, nor died on a gibbet, nor be eaten in a piece of dough." Imprisoned, exiled, his works banned and burned, Voltaire's great popularity in revolutionary France assured him a final resting place in the Pantheon in Paris. One story is that religious extremists stole his remains and dumped them in a garbage heap.

Baron d'Holbach ('Boulanger') (1723-1789) Philosopher of the Enlightenment. 1766, Christianity Unveiled, being an examination of the principles and effects of the Chrisian Religion. 1769, Histoire critique de Jésus-Christ (Ecce Homo). Classics from the Age of Reason. Holbach concluded that:

"Religion is the art of inspiring mankind with an enthusiam which is designed to divert their attention from the evils with which they are overwhelmed by those who govern them." – Christianity Unveiled, 16.5


Count Constantine Volney, 1787, Les Ruines; ou, Méditation sur les révolutions des empires (Ruins of Empires). Napoleonic investigator saw for himself evidence of Egyptian precursors of Christianity.

Edward Evanson, 1792, The Dissonance of the Four Generally Received Evangelists and the Evidence of their Respective Authenticity. English rationalist challenged apostolic authorship of the 4th Gospel and denounced several Pauline epistles as spurious.

Charles François Dupuis, 1794, Origine de tous les Cultes ou La Religion universelle (The Origin of All Religious Worship) Astral-mythical interpretation of Christianity (and all religion). “A great error is more easily propagated, than a great truth, because it is easier to believe, than to reason, and because people prefer the marvels of romances to the simplicity of history.” Dupuis destroyed most of his own work because of the violent reaction it provoked.

Thomas Paine, 1795, The Age of Reason. Pamphleteer who made the first call for American independence (Common Sense, 1776; Rights of Man, 1791) Paine poured savage ridicule on the contradictions and atrocities of the Bible. Like many American revolutionaries Paine was a deist:

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of ... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." – The Age of Reason.


Robert Taylor, 1828, Syntagma Of The Evidences Of The Christian Religion; 1829, Diegesis. Taylor was imprisoned for declaring mythical origins for Christianity. "The earliest Christians meant the words to be nothing more than a personification of the principle of reason, of goodness, or that principle, be it what it may, which may most benefit mankind in the passage through life.”

Godfrey Higgins (1771-1834). 1836, Anacalypsis – An Attempt to Draw Aside the Veil of the Saitic Isis; or an Inquiry into the Origin of Languages, Nations and Religions. English pioneer of archaeology and freemason.

David Friedrich Strauss, 1835, The Life of Jesus Critically Examined. Lutheran vicar-turned-scholar skilfully exposed gospel miracles as myth and in the process reduced Jesus to a man. It cost him his career.

Bruno Bauer, 1841, Criticism of the Gospel History of the Synoptics. 1877, Christus und die Caesaren. Der Hervorgang des Christentums aus dem romischen Griechentum. (in English translation). The original iconoclast. Bauer contested the authenticity of all the Pauline epistles (in which he saw the influence of Stoic thinkers like Seneca) and identified Philo's role in emergent Christianity. Bauer rejected the historicity of Jesus himself. "Everything that is known of Jesus belongs to the world of imagination." As a result in 1842 Bauer was ridiculed and removed from his professorship of New Testament theology at Tübingen.

Ralph Waldo Emerson, 1841, Essays. One time Trinitarian Christian and former Unitarian minister held Jesus to be a "true prophet" but that organised Christianity was an "eastern monarchy"."Our Sunday-schools, and churches, and pauper-societies are yokes to the neck."

Logan Mitchell, 1842, Christian Mythology Unveiled. 1881, Religion in the Heavens or Mythology Unveiled. “Reigning opinion, however ill-founded and absurd, is always queen of the nations.”

Ferdinand Christian Baur, 1845, Paulus, der Apostel Jesu Christi. German scholar who identified as "inauthentic" not only the pastoral epistles, but also Colossians, Ephesians, Philemon and Philippians (leaving only the four main Pauline epistles regarded as genuine). Baur was the founder of the so-called "Tübingen School."

Charles Bradlaugh, 1860, Who Was Jesus Christ? What Did Jesus Teach? Most famous English atheist of the 19th century, founded the National Secular Society and became an MP, winning the right to affirm. Condemned the teachings of Jesus as dehumanizing passivity and disastrous as practical advice. Bradlaugh denounced the gospel Jesus as a myth.

Ernest Renan, 1863, Vie de Jésus (Das Leben Jesu / Life of Jesus). Although trained as a Catholic priest Renan was inspired by German biblical criticism and wrote a popular biography of Jesus which cost him his job (which he later regained). Renan concluded that the hero of the Christians was a gifted but merely human preacher, persuaded by his followers into thinking he was the messiah. Renan subsequently wrote a History of the Origins of Christianity in seven volumes.

Sytze Hoekstra, 1871, Principles and Doctrine of the Early Anabaptists. Scholar of the Radical Dutch school, Hoekstra concluded Mark's gospel had no value as a biography of Jesus. [link]

Robert Ingersoll, 1872, The Gods. 1879, Some Mistakes of Moses. Illinois orator extraordinaire, his speeches savaged the Christian religion. "It has always seemed to me that a being coming from another world, with a message of infinite importance to mankind, should at least have verified that message by his own signature. Is it not wonderful that not one word was written by Christ?"

Walter Cassels, 1874, Supernatural Religion - An Inquiry Concerning the Reality of Divine Revelation

Kersey Graves, 1875, The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviours. Pennsylvanian Quaker who saw through to the pagan heart of Christian fabrications, though rarely cited sources for his far-reaching conclusions.

Allard Pierson, 1879, De Bergrede en andere synoptische Fragmenten. [link] Theologian, art and literature historian who identified The Sermon on the Mount as a collection of aphorisms from Jewish Wisdom literature.The publication of Pierson's Bergrede was the beginning of Dutch Radical Criticism. Not just the authenticity of all the Pauline epistles but the historical existence of Jesus himself was called into question.

Bronson C. Keeler, 1881, A Short History of the Bible. A classic exposé of Christian fraud.

Abraham Dirk Loman, 1882, "Quaestiones Paulinae," in Theologisch Tijdschrift. Professor of theology at Amsterdam who said all the epistles date from the 2nd century. Loman explained Christianity as a fusion of Jewish and Roman-Hellenic thinking. When he went blind Loman said his blindness gave him insight into the dark history of the church! [link]

Thomas William Doane, 1882, Bible Myths and their Parallels in Other Religions. Outdated but a classic revelation of pagan antecedents of biblical myths and miracles.

Samuel Adrianus Naber, 1886, Verisimilia. Laceram conditionem Novi Testamenti exemplis illustrarunt et ab origine repetierunt. Classicist who saw Greek myths hidden within Christian scripture. [link]

Gerald Massey, 1886, The Historical Jesus and Mythical Christ. 1907, Ancient Egypt-The Light of the World. Another classic from an early nemesis of the priesthood. British Egyptologist wrote six volumes on the religion of ancient Egypt.

Edwin Johnson, 1887, Antiqua Mater. A Study of Christian Origins. 1894, The Pauline Epistles: Re-studied and Explained. English radical theologian identified the early Christians as the Chrestiani, followers of a good (Chrestus) God who had expropriating the myth of Dionysos Eleutherios ("Dionysos the Emancipator"), to produce a self-sacrificing Godman. Denounced the twelve apostles as complete fabrication.

Rudolf Steck, 1888, Der Galaterbrief nach seiner Echtheit untersucht nebst kritischen Bemerkungen zu den Paulinischen Hauptbriefen. Radical Swiss scholar branded all the Pauline epistles as fakes.

Franz Hartman, 1889, The Life of Johoshua: The Prophet of Nazareth.

Willem Christiaan van Manen, 1896, Paulus. Professor at Leiden and most famous of the Dutch Radicals, a churchman who did not believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. After resisting the argument for many years van Manen concluded none of the Pauline epistles were genuine and that Acts was dependent on the works of Josephus. [link]

Joseph McCabe, 1897, Why I Left the Church. 1907, The Bible in Europe: an Inquiry into the Contribution of the Christian Religion to Civilization. 1914, The Sources of the Morality of the Gospels. 1926, The Human Origin of Morals. Franciscan monk-turned-evangelical atheist. McCabe, a prolific writer, shredded many parts of the Christ legend – "There is no 'figure of Jesus' in the Gospels. There are a dozen figures" – but he continued to allow the possibility for an historical founder..

Albert Schweitzer,1901, The Mystery of the Kingdom of God. 1906, The Quest of the Historical Jesus. The famous German theologian and missionary (35 years in the Cameroons) ridiculed the humanitarian Jesus of the liberals and at the same time had the courage to recognize the work of the Dutch Radicals. His own pessimistic conclusion was that the superhero had been an apocalyptic fanatic and that Jesus died a disappointed man. Famously said those looking for an historical Jesus merely "found a reflection of themselves."

"The Dutch Radicals did not forget to question, when questioning had gone out of fashion for the rest of theology." – Geschichte der paulinischen Forschung, 108.


Wilhelm Wrede, 1901, The Messianic Secret (Das Messiasgeheimnis in den Evangelien). Wrede demonstrated how, in Mark’s gospel, a false history was shaped by early Christian belief.

Albert Kalthoff, 1902, Das Christus-Problem. 1907, The Rise of Christianity. Another radical German scholar who identified Christianity as a psychosis. Christ was essentially the transcendental principle of the Christian community which aimed at apocalyptic social reform.

George Robert Stowe Mead, 1901, Apollonius of Tyana, the Philosopher-Reformer of the First Century A.D. 1903, Did Jesus Live 100 BC? 1907, The Gnostic Crucifixion. A discussion of the Jewish Jeschu stories which moves Jesus back to an earlier time.

Thomas Whittaker, 1904, The Origins of Christianity. Declared that Jesus was a myth, that the Christian movement began only after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 and that the whole body of New Testament writings date to the second century. How right he was!

Emilio Bossi/Milesbo 1904, Gesù Cristo non è mai esistito (Jesus Christ Never Existed). Bossi was a radical lawyer/journalist ("Milesbo" being his pen-name). Jesus is a concoction from Tanakh and the mystery cults, and Jesus's ethics are a patchwork from Philo and Seneca.

William Benjamin Smith, 1906, Der vorchristliche Jesus. 1911, Die urchristliche Lehre des reingöttlichen Jesus. Argues for origins in a pre-Christian Jesus cult on the island of Cyprus. [link]

Gerardus Bolland, 1907, De Evangelische Jozua. Philosopher at Leiden identified the origin of Christianity in an earlier Jewish Gnosticism. The New Testament superstar is the Old Testament 'son of Nun', the follower renamed Jesus by Moses. The virgin is nothing but a symbol for the people of Israel. From Alexandria the "Netzerim" took their gospel to Palestine.


In 1907 Pope Pius X condemned the Modernists who were "working within the framework of the Church". Among those denounced and excommunicated was Alfred Loisy (The Gospel and the Church, 1902), Catholic priest and theologian who made the pithy observation "Jesus announced the Kingdom, and it's the Church that came." An anti-Modernist oath was introduced in 1910, as well as the Confession for children – opening the door for rampant abuse.


Prosper Alfaric (1886-1955) French Professor of Theology, shaken by the stance of Pius X, renounced his faith and left the church in 1909 to work for the cause of rationalism. 1929, Pour Comprendre La Vie De Jésus. 1932, The problem of Jesus and Christian Origins. 2005, Jésus-Christ a-t-il existé? [Jesus: Did he exist?] Alfaric drew attention to Essene antecedents of Christian dogma.

Peter Jensen, 1909, Moses, Jesus, Paul: Three Variations on the Babylonian Godman Gilgamesh. Orientalist argued that Jesus was reworked Babylonian mythology. [link]

Mangasar Magurditch Mangasarian, 1909, The Truth About Jesus. Is He a Myth? Erstwhile Presbyterian Minister who saw through the fabrication. "Even in the first centuries the Christians were compelled to resort to forgery to prove the historicity of Jesus."

Karl Kautsky, 1909, The Foundations of Christianity. Early socialist interpreted Christianity in terms of class struggle. [link]

John E. Remsburg, 1909, The Christ: A critical review and analysis of the evidences of His existence. Gospels rife with contradictions. Doubtful that Jesus existed and a supernatural Christ is certainly Christian dogma.

Arthur Drews, 1910, Die Christusmythe (The Christ Myth). 1910, Die Petruslegende (The Legend of St Peter). 1912, The Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus. 1924, Die Entstehung des Christentums aus dem Gnostizismus (The Emergence of Christianity from Gnosticism). 1926, The Denial of the Historicity of Jesus. Eminent philosopher was Germany's greatest exponent of the contention that Christ is a myth. The gospels historized a pre-existing mystical Jesus whose character was drawn from the prophets and Jewish wisdom literature. The Passion was to be found in the speculations of Plato.

John Robertson, 1910, Christianity and Mythology. 1911, Pagan Christs. Studies in Comparative Hierology. 1917, The Jesus Problem. Robertson drew attention to the universality of many elements of the Jesus storyline and to pre-Christian crucifixion rituals in the ancient world. Identified the original Jesus/Joshua with an ancient Ephraimite deity in the form of a lamb.

Edouard Dujardin, 1910, The Source of the Christian tradition : a critical history of ancient Judaism. 1938, Ancient History of the God Jesus.

Gustaaf Adolf van den Bergh van Eysinga, 1908, Examining the Authenticity of the First Epistle of Clement. 1912, Radical Views about the New Testament. 1918, Voorchristelijk Christendom. De vorbereiding van het Evangelie in de Hellenistische wereld. 1930, Does Jesus Live, or Has He Only Lived? 1951, Early Christianity`s Letters. Theologian and last of the Dutch radicals to hold a university professorship.

Alexander Hislop, 1916, The Two Babylons. Exhaustive exposure of the pagan rituals and paraphernalia of Roman Catholicism.

Edward Carpenter, 1920, Pagan and Christian Creeds. Elaborated the pagan origins of Christianity.

Rudolf Bultmann, 1921, The History of the Synoptic Tradition. 1941, Neues Testament und Mythologie. Lutheran theologian and professor at Marburg University Bultman was the exponent of 'form criticism' and did much to demythologise the gospels. He identified the narratives of Jesus as theology served up in the language of myth. Bultmann observed that the New Testament was not the story of Jesus but a record of early Christian belief. He argued that the search for an historical Jesus was fruitless: "We can know almost nothing concerning the life and personality of Jesus." (Jesus and the Word, 8)

James Frazer, 1922, The Golden Bough. Anthropological interpretation of man's progress from magic, through religion to science. Christianity a cultural phenomenon.

Marshall J. Gauvin, 1922, Did Jesus Christ Really Live? Notable speaker in the Freethought movement questioned the very existence of a Jesus figure.

Paul-Louis Couchoud, 1924, Le mystère de Jesus. 1926, La Première Edition de St. Paul. 1930, Jesus Barabbas. 1939, The Creation of Christ. Couchoud, a polymath, espoused an historical Peter rather than an historical Jesus and argued that the Passion was modelled on the death of Stephen.

Georg Brandes, 1925, Die Jesus-Sage. 1926, Jesus – A Myth. Danish scholar identified the Revelation of St John as the earliest part of the New Testament.

Joseph Wheless, 1926, Is It God's Word? An Exposition of the Fables and Mythology of the Bible and the Fallacies of Theology. 1930, Forgery in Christianity. American attorney, raised in the Bible Belt, shredded the biblical fantasy.

Henri Delafosse, 1926, L'épître aux Romains.1927, Les Lettres d’Ignace d’Antioche. 1928, "Les e'crits de Saint Paul," in Christianisme. Epistles of Ignatius denounced as late forgeries.

L. Gordon Rylands, 1927, The Evolution of Christianity.1935, Did Jesus Ever Live? [link]

John G. Jackson, 1933, Was Jesus Christ a Negro? 1937, Introduction To African Civilizations. 1941, Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth. 1970 Man, God, and Civilization. 1985, Christianity Before Christ. Most influential Black Atheist drew attention to the Ethiopian and Egyptian precedents of Christian belief. [link]

Alvin Boyd Kuhn, 1944, Who is this King of Glory? 1949, Shadow of the Third Century. 1970, Rebirth for Christianity. Jesus was never a person, but a symbol of the divine soul in every human being. "We are forced to the conclusion that the Christian religion was born out of a misreading of the cryptic ancient Scriptures, by sincere but unschooled minds." (Rebirth, 87).

Herbert Cutner, 1950, Jesus: God, Man, or Myth? Mythical nature of Jesus and a summary of the ongoing debate between mythicists and historicizers. Mythic-only position is continuous tradition, not novel. Pagan origins of Christ.

Georges Las Vergnas, 1956, Pourquoi j'ai quitté l'Eglise romaine Besançon. 1958, Jésus-Christ a-t-il existé? [link] Vicar general of the diocese of Limoges who lost his faith. Argues that the central figure of Christianity had no historical existence.

Georges Ory, 1961, An Analysis of Christian Origins. French scholar concluded "Jesus-Christ was not a human Messiah." [link].

Guy Fau, 1967, Le Fable de Jesus Christ. [link]

John Allegro, 1970, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. 1979, The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian Myth. Jesus was nothing other than a magic mushroom and his life an allegorical interpretation of a drug-induced state. Not jail for Allegro – but professional ruin.

George Albert Wells, 1971, The Jesus of the Early Christians. 1975, Did Jesus Exist? 1988, The Historical Evidence for Jesus. 1996, The Jesus Legend. 1998, Jesus Myth. 1999, Earliest Christianity. 2004, Can We Trust the New Testament? Thoughts on the Reliability of Early Christian Testimony. 2009, Cutting Jesus Down to Size: What Higher Criticism Has Achieved and Where It Leaves Christianity. Christianity a growth from Jewish Wisdom literature. Wells remains one of the best known advocates of Jesus mythicism though his later books concede the possible influence of a real preacher via the postulated Q document. [link]

Phyllis Graham, 1974, The Jesus Hoax. The nonexistent godman denounced, this time by one of his former brides – an erstwhile Carmelite nun. [link]

Jean Magne, 1975, Christian Origins, I-II. 1989, III, IV. Logique des Dogmes, Logic of the Sacraments. 1993, From Christianity to Gnosis and From Gnosis to Christianity: An Itinerary through the Texts to and from the Tree of Paradise.

Samuel Max Rieser, 1979, The True Founder of Christianity and the Hellenistic Philosophy. Christianity started by Jews of the Diaspora and then retroactively set in pre-70 Palestine. Christianity arrived last, not first, in Palestine – that's why Christian archeological finds appear in Rome but not in Judea until the 4th century. [link]

Abelard Reuchlin, 1979, The True Authorship of the New Testament. Conspiracy theory par excellence: Roman aristocrat Arius Calpurnius Piso (aka "Flavius Josephus", aka "Plutarch", aka "Manetho"!) conspired to gain control of the Roman Empire by forging an entirely new religion. OMG, really? [link]

Nikos Vergidis, 1985, Νέρων και Χριστός [Nero and Christ] Greek scholar argues for Christian origins in Rome.

Karlheinz Deschner, 1986-2004, The Criminal History of Christianity, Volumes 1-8. A leading German critic of religion and the Church. In 1971 Deschner was called before a court in Nuremberg, charged with "insulting the Church." [link]

Hermann Detering, 1992, Paulusbriefe ohne Paulus?: Die Paulusbriefe in der Holländischen Radikalkritik (The Pauline Epistles Without Paul). 2012, Der gefälschte Paulus – Das Urchristentum im Zwielicht (The Falsified Paul. Early Christianity in the twilight). German minister in the Dutch radical tradition. No Jesus and no Paul. The latter Detering identifies with the Samaritan sorcerer Simon Magus.

Gary Courtney, 1992, 2004 Et tu, Judas? Then Fall Jesus! The Passion is essentially Caesar's fate in Judaic disguise, grafted onto the dying/resurrcting cult of Attis. Jewish fans of Caesar assimilated the sacrificed 'saviour of mankind' into the 'Suffering Servant' of Isaiah. [link]

Michael Kalopoulos, 1995, The Great Lie. Greek historian finds strikingly similar parallels between biblical texts and Greek mythology. He exposes the cunning, deceitful and authoritarian nature of religion.

Gerd Lüdemann, 1998, The Great Deception: And What Jesus Really Said and Did. 2002, Paul: The Founder of Christianity. 2004, The Resurrection Of Christ: A Historical Inquiry. After 25 years of study German professor concluded Paul, not Jesus, started Christianity. Lüdemann was expelled from the theology faculty at the University of Göttingen for daring to say that the Resurrection was "a pious self-deception." So much for academic freedom. [link]

Alvar Ellegard, 1999, Jesus One Hundred Years Before Christ. Christianity seen as emerging from the Essene Church of God with the Jesus prototype the Teacher of Righteousness. [link]

D. Murdock (aka 'Acharya S') 1999, The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold. 2004, Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled. 2009, Christ in Egypt. Adds a astro-theological dimension to christ-myth demolition. Murdock identifies JC as a composite deity used to unify the Roman Empire.[link]

Earl Doherty, 1999, The Jesus Puzzle. Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? 2009, Jesus: Neither God Nor Man. Powerful statement of how Christianity started as a mystical-revelatory Jewish sect – no Jesus required!. [link]

Timothy Freke, Peter Gandy, 1999, The Jesus Mysteries. 2001, Jesus and the Lost Goddess : The Secret Teachings of the Original Christians. Examines the close relationship between the Jesus Story and that of Osiris-Dionysus. Jesus and Mary Magdalene mythic figures based on the Pagan Godman and Goddess.

Harold Liedner, 2000, The Fabrication of the Christ Myth. Anachronisms and geographic errors of the gospels denounced. Jesus a fictional Joshua for a 1st century Judaic cult and Christianity one of history's most effective frauds. [link]

Robert Price, 2000, Deconstructing Jesus. 2003 Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable Is the Gospel Tradition? 2011, The Christ Myth Theory and its Problems. Ex-minister and accredited scholar shows Jesus to be a fictional amalgam of several 1st century prophets, mystery cult redeemers and gnostic 'aions'. [link]

Hal Childs, 2000, The Myth of the Historical Jesus and the Evolution of Consciousness. A psychotherapist take on the godman.[link]

Michael Hoffman, 2000, Philosopher and theorist of "ego death" who jettisoned an historical Jesus. [link]

Dennis MacDonald, 2000, The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark. Professor of New Testament studies and Christian origins maps extensive borrowings from the Homeric epics the Iliad and the Odyssey by the authors of the gospel of Mark and Acts of the Apostles. [link]

Burton Mack, 2001, The Christian Myth: Origins, Logic, and Legacy. Social formation of myth making. [link]

Luigi Cascioli, 2001, The Fable of Christ. Indicted the Papacy for profiteering from a fraud! [link]

Israel Finkelstein, Neil Silbermann, 2002, The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts. Courageous archaeologists who skillfully proved the sacred foundational stories of Judaism and Christianity are bogus. [link]

Frank R. Zindler, 2003, The Jesus the Jews Never Knew: Sepher Toldoth Yeshu and the Quest of the Historical Jesus in Jewish Sources. No evidence in Jewish sources for the phantom messiah. [link]

Daniel Unterbrink, 2004, Judas the Galilean. The Flesh and Blood Jesus. Parallels between the tax rebel of 6 AD and the phantom of the Gospels explored in detail. 'Judas is Jesus'. Well, part of Jesus, no doubt. [link]

Tom Harpur, 2005, The Pagan Christ: Recovering the Lost Light. Canadian New Testament scholar and ex-Anglican priest re-states the ideas of Kuhn, Higgins and Massey. Jesus is a myth and all of the essential ideas of Christianity originated in Egypt. [link]

Francesco Carotta, 2005, Jesus Was Caesar: On the Julian Origin of Christianity. Exhaustive inventory of parallels. Alarmingly, asserts Caesar was Jesus. [link]

Joseph Atwill, 2005, Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus. Another take on the Josephus-Gospel similarities. Atwill argues that the 1st century conquerors of Judaea, Vespasian, Titus and Domitian, used Hellenized Jews to manufacture the "Christian" texts in order to establish a peaceful alternative to militant Judaism. Jesus was Titus Flavius? I don't think so. [link]

Michel Onfray, 2005, Traité d'athéologie (2007 In Defence of Atheism) French philosopher argues for a positive atheism, debunking an historical Jesus along the way. [link]

Kenneth Humphreys, 2005, Jesus Never Existed. Book of this website. Draws together the most convincing expositions for the supposed messianic superhero. The author sets this exegesis within the socio-historical context of an evolving, malevolent religion. [link]

Jay Raskin, 2006, The Evolution of Christs and Christianities. Academic and erstwhile filmaker Raskin looks beyond the official smokescreen of Eusebius and finds a fragmented Christ movement and a composite Christ figure, crafted from several literary and historical characters. Speculates that the earliest layer of myth-making was a play written by a woman called Mary. Maybe. [link]

Thomas L. Thompson, 2006, The Messiah Myth. 2012, Is this not the Carpenter? (Ed.). Theologian, university don and historian of the Copenhagen school who concludes Jesus and David are both amalgams of Near Eastern mythological themes originating in the Bronze Age. [link]

Jan Irvin, Andrew Rutajit, 2006, Astrotheology and Shamanism: Unveiling the Law of Duality in Christianity and other Religions. Explores astrotheology and shamanism and vindicates John Allegro's work with psychoactive substances. [link]

Lena Einhorn, What Happened on the Road to Damascus? (2006). Swedish historian and proponent of the theory that Paul was the founder of Christianity and that "Jesus" was actually Paul. [link]

Roger Viklund, 2008. Den Jesus som aldrig funnits (The Jesus who never existed). A Swedish scholar reaches the same inescapable conclusion: Jesus never existed. [link]

René Salm, The Myth of Nazareth (2008). Scholar who primarilly focuses on deconstructing the claims for a historical Nazareth – and does so very effectively. [link]

Thomas Brodie, 2012. Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus: A Memoir of a Discovery.. Priest and former director of the Dominican Biblical Centre, Ireland concludes "Jesus did not exist as a historical individual" and is a literary reworking of the account of Elijah and Elisha. [link]

Richard Carrier, 2012. Proving History: Bayes's Theorem and the Quest for the Historical Jesus. 2014, On the Historicity of Jesus: Why We Might Have Reason To Doubt. Erstwhile editor of Internet Infidels and activist for atheism argues for the use of Bayes' Theorem as a way out of the befuddled mess that besets Jesus studies. Carrier establishes that probability favours the non-existence of Jesus. The alternative? A figure first conceive as a celestial being revealed through private revelation and scripture, written into allegory and subsequently misunderstood as a literal truth. In fact, just what mythicists have been saying for years but elegantly and comprehensively presented.[link]

Raphael Lataster, 2013.There Was No Jesus, There Is No God. Religious studies scholar at the University of Sydney puts his head above the parapet. This former fundamentalist Christian concludes from the spurious evidence, Bayesian reasoning, and rigorous logic that the historical Jesus never existed.


I have some more, if needed.

Try again, Olivier...

timur
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:20 am
@Olivier5,
Don't try weaselling around, Olivier, we have a good thread for global warming.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:41 am
@timur,
That's a lot of old old dudes, many of whom never denied the historicity of Jesus. Renan, Voltaire, etc. even Loisy and Albert Albert Schweitzer are mentioned, although the former did more than most to discredit the myth thesis.

Do your homework, Timur, and try and do it without hatred in your heart, calmly, as objectively as you can. And then stop peddling discredited, hateful theories that fly in the face of the evidence. It's embarrassing for our 'camp'. You make us look as dogmatic, hateful and irrational as Christian fundamentalists. Please stop.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:43 am
@timur,
Where?

It's also very similar to holocaust denying. Same mental outlook and approach to history: "beware, official historians are lying"...
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:45 am
No contemporary of Jesus said they did not believe in him. None said they did believe in him either. Apparently the writers of the time never heard of him.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 07:46 am
@Olivier5,
BTW, Michel Onfray is a philosopher, polemists and intellectual, not a historian. An amateur, as always the case with mythists.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 05/03/2024 at 11:34:25