Did Jesus Actually Exist?

@Lustig Andrei,

Quote:

it would have been quite a feat to convince the entire Roman Empire and then the rest of the world of the miraculous existence of someone who had no real-life counterpart to refer to.

Why as the Greek and the Romans believe in all manner of gods along with the rest of the human race that we now laugh at?

Convincing the bulk of the human race concerning such nonsense have never proven a hard task.and hell the Carthaginians is said to believe in their gods so strongly that they would throw some of their own children into a fire in order to made some god happy.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

And nobody on this thread has come up with a credible alternative either, about how or why or by whom he was invented.

Why would any group create a mythical figure to promote a greater truth? Like Odin dying to understand the runes, or Osiris,or Dionysus.

Why would any group make their dying god more human? How could that make his sacrifice more relevant?

There were loads of religions mixing up in the Roman Empire at the time, lots of different cults. It's perfectly reasonable to assume one group created the mythical Jesus to explain their concept of salvation.

I think that explanation is just as credible as there being a real person called Jesus.

Like I said, I'm not convinced either way.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Thales works/writing was still in existence at the time of both of those men life and refer to many times in their own works and writings.

Thales wrote no book that we know of, if I recall.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Why as the Greek and the Romans believe in all manner of gods along with the rest of the human race that we now laugh at?

It's actually pretty unlikely that very many Greeks or Romans believed in the existence of the gods of Olympus. That was merely a social convention; if they believed in the divinity of anyone or anything, it was probably the Emperor as Caesar had virtually unlimited power in their lives. By the same token probably less than half of the church-goers today believe anything it says in the Bible. That's not the point. We're talking about the historicity of a person, not that person's putative divinity.

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@izzythepush,

Like who? Can we be a bit more specific about who invented Jesus? And when?

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For people who claim not to care so much for Jesus or if he existed, there sure is a lot of energy being expended trying to make the doubters fall in line.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

For people who claim not to care so much for Jesus or if he existed, there sure is a lot of energy being expended trying to make the doubters fall in line.

I'll expend a lot of effort in trying to understand the world around me. The truth is very important to me and arguments from ignorance tend to bother me.

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@Olivier5,

What I would really want to know is who came up with the idea to have the Messiah-son-of-God savior hero end up dying like a vulgar criminal by TORTURE, after having been thoroughly humiliated, and wimping at the end: "Father Father, why did you abandon me?"... Now whose BRILLIANT idea was that???

;-)

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

You want me to name names? You really have to be right don't you? The irony of you demanding more proof of Jesus mythical status' than you do of his being real is a thing of beauty.

There were loads of different Jewish cults all over the shop in 1st Century Palestine. Any one of them could have done it.

Believe what you want.

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@Lustig Andrei,

Don't make any more then.

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@edgarblythe,

Oh, I've been very circumspect on this thread, I think.

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@izzythepush,

Too easy...

I'm just saying: either the boy Jeebus is based on a real character, or he is entirely fictional. Which option is the least improbable? The first one... A conspiracy of this complexity can of course be pulled but it would demand vast resources, like in any good con you have to invest money. Money to write fake books (divergent ones too, to shoot yourself in the leg right from the start), money to propagate them, to pay for the stooges who testify the knew the boy Jeebus, etc. and all that for what? To end up in the circus in front of a lion?

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@Lustig Andrei,

Until now. Laughing

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@Olivier5,

Why did anyone invent the Norse myths?

You sound like you're trying to convince yourself.

Some things take on a life of their own.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

Thales wrote no book that we know of, if I recall.

Sorry you hear wrong or recall wrong as his works was refer to by others for hundreds of years.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

dying like a vulgar criminal by TORTURE, after having been thoroughly humiliated, and wimping at the end: "Father Father, why did you abandon me?"... Now whose BRILLIANT idea was that???

So you think that a demigod never met a bad end in the stories that mankind have come up with?

An a bad end that was not the last word on his faith beside!!!!!!!!

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@Setanta,

Quote:

This is a good point, i'm not convinced either way myself. However, the so-called gospels are so full of gross historical errors and contradictions that they should be doubted. The christians are so avidly eager to assert the historicity of Jeebus because they seem to think that that will then establish the veracity of the scripture. Fat chance.

The Tractate Sanhedrin 43a debunks all your silly hypothesis of Yeshu as a man behind Roman and Greek gods, your twisted ideas against faulty gospels, and similar.

Even more, if Augustus had the idea of performing a census the days when Yeshu was born, was because by Mosaic Law the Israelites were told to go to the Temple three times a year, and the celebration of the Feasts of Tents was a feast where Israelites traveled to Jerusalem.

Augusts might have used such a great opportunity to perform his census on Israelites.

Because so many Israelites visited the area for the feast of their god, is the reason why the parents of Yeshu had problems to find a place to sleep.

The celebration was so great that lots of gentiles also traveled to Jerusalem to watch or participate of the feast. According to many opinions, Yeshu was born on the 8th day following that feast of tents; which means, that his birth was in the last feast of the Israelite calendar, which was The Last and Great Day.

So he was born when Israelites danced and kissed the Torah.

Of course, your blind brain cannot see it... so, keep with your hilarious hypothesis, I can see that you are happy with such a closed mind of yours... so, this information is not for you but for the other readers...

And thanks for your great example: Titus Flavius Josephus. You made my point valid, that names ended with letter "s" ("us" to make it a male's name) wasn't Hebrew but Greek, and by consequence, the name of that man was Yashu or Yoshua (Joshua in modern English), but never ever was Iesous, Iesus, or Jesus, which are transliterations only.

1 Reply

@carloslebaron,

What nonsense that anyone running a census would demand that the people not be counted at where they are living but must return to their birth place.

In the history of the human that have never happen in the real world.

Nonsense on top of nonsense.

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Augustus preformed several lustrums, so even the term census is a clue that the gospel writers didn't know what they hell they were talking about. We know exactly when he ordered each lustrum to performed because it is literally carved in stone. There are several examples of the Res Gestae Divi Augusti scattered over what was once the Roman empire. None of the dates match up.

Besides, he was only counting Roman citizens. Why would he give a **** about how many Jews there were in the empire? That was the business of the various legates in the provinces where they lived. Your speculation is bullshit.

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

There probably was A Jesus. He was just another jackleg prophet at a time when Israel was awash in them. He wasn't particularly influential, but what he had going for him was really REALLY good PR people, some influential ones who didn't come around until qite awhiled after he died and had no firsthand knowledge of him, who created a legend around him and pushed it really hard after his death, not, when you look at it closely, unlike Col. Tom Parker creating the myth of Elvis Presley, tho Elvis was probably more charismatic than the original Jesus.

Hehehe . . . . that was a good one.

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Did Jesus Actually Exist?

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