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Philosophy/Psychology--Same branch of the tree

 
 
Letty
 
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2004 01:59 pm
As usual, I was trying to find the answer to an age old question for me:

Is their a negative correlation between creativity and intelligence?

In so doing, I ran across this interesting site:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/10.23/01-creativity.html

The first observation is brief, but more projective.

The second is longer, but more provoking.

What do you think, A2K'ers?
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2004 03:46 pm
By what the article purports, there is a positive correlation between creativity and intelligence as measured by IQ tests.

"We saw creativity increase as IQs climb to 130 (the average score of Harvard students), and even up to 150."

I've never heard of the suspicions that creativity and intelligence are negatively correlated.
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Noddy24
 
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Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2004 04:21 pm
I agree with InfraBlue--I have never heard of a proven negative correlation between creativity and I.Q.

Back in the '40's and early '50's many teacher's college graduates and education majors who had been taught that I.Q. wasn't everything tried to "prove" that highly intelligent children couldn't possibly be creative as well. Doubts were also voiced about the physical appearance and social adjustment of bright children.

Most bright people tend to be better looking than average, more well adjusted than average and I can believe that having more pieces of the puzzle in their mental playpens than the "average" that bright people show more creativity than "average" people.

"Intelligent" children and adults who make high scores on tests which measure rote learning and the ability to quote the textbook but who are not comfortable with independent reasoning do not show much creativity.
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SCoates
 
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Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2004 05:23 pm
I would negatively correlate mentality and sociality. Where mentality includes both intelligence and creativity. Now where it is not always the case, I feel that exceptions are extremes, and therefor the correlation goes unnoticed.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2004 05:53 pm
SCoates, Noddy, Infrablue. I ran across that abstract in the stacks at UVA. As far as I can tell, there has never been another article or thesis concerning that particular idea.

When I titled this thread Philosophy/psychology, it was because that psychology used to be lumped in with philosophy. It later became a branch unto itself, because it tried to measure as opposed to "discuss".

I still recall the words of Carl Sagan as he lay dying: "Prove it"--in reference to the existence of God. Had to give him credit.

You know, folks. when we look at stuff in real life and on forums, we grab a little here, and a little there, and we try to fit it in as it relates to us, which of course, is natural.
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xifar
 
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Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2004 06:55 pm
If intelligence is defined as critical thinking skills, comprehension skills, analytical thinking, use of logic, independent thinking, problem solving skills, then intelligence and creativity will always prove to have a positive relation. Creativity is not just the ability to paint a picture or to write a novel, it a key aspect of thinking through a problem and creating a solution.

If intelligence is defined as the ability to recite facts, or memorize a list, or think how someone tells you to think, then creativity and intelligence will usually have a negative correlation.

If intelligence is the ability to score well on a standardized test or make an A in a class you hate, then I think the relationship between intelligence and creativity will be neutral.

Some of the most successful people I know, the few multi-millionaires that I know personally are inventers and dynamic CEO's of companies. They are highly creative and at the same time, their actions portray pure genius.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2004 07:31 pm
xifar--success without acceptance. Ponder that one, my friend.

Goodnight from Florida
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shepaints
 
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Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 07:09 pm
Thanks Letty, that article explains to me how a person can score in the superior range in IQ tests, yet be a very mediocre student.... I wonder
if our school systems truly encourage creativity!
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dlowan
 
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Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 07:14 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
I agree with InfraBlue--I have never heard of a proven negative correlation between creativity and I.Q.

Back in the '40's and early '50's many teacher's college graduates and education majors who had been taught that I.Q. wasn't everything tried to "prove" that highly intelligent children couldn't possibly be creative as well. Doubts were also voiced about the physical appearance and social adjustment of bright children.

Most bright people tend to be better looking than average, more well adjusted than average and I can believe that having more pieces of the puzzle in their mental playpens than the "average" that bright people show more creativity than "average" people.

"Intelligent" children and adults who make high scores on tests which measure rote learning and the ability to quote the textbook but who are not comfortable with independent reasoning do not show much creativity.


When formally assessing the status of a child, in terms of protective and concerning factors, high intelligence is always seen as a protective factor.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 08:23 pm
Well, apparently my IQ is 196 and I am quite creative, and quite mad, actually. Ask me to balance a checkbook or vaccum, I'm completely lost. The school system sucks all around. It streams every child into a medium, i.e. mediocore 'jack of all trades, master of none' education. I thank the great teachers I had, and curse the ones who were horrible. I was a an inmate of the principal's office for most of my lackluster childhood education.

Mr. Hemrend, taught advanced English in high school. He introduced me to Pinter, Faulkner, Beckett, my eyes were opened....he was the first professor I ever showed my poetry to. He read "As I Lay Dying" to the class, using a different voice for each character. It brought everything to life. Mr. Sankoff, biology teacher, had a ruler on his desk that read "god" on one side and "king" on the other. Fantastic sense of humour. He taught us about hydrogen bonds by picking out a student and saying "This guy is weak. Any of you could beat the crap out of him. But he has friends, and the more friends he has, the stronger he gets. Hydrogen bonding works the same way." I loved that teacher...very creative.
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2004 08:55 am
Good morning all. Perhaps the fault lies in the tests themselves, or those who evaluate the results. Or perhaps when America began to pigeon hole students based on a score, the descent began. There are really no good tests devised to measure creativity, and that is understandable since by its very nature, the creative mind resists such convergent thinking.
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cavfancier
 
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Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2004 08:59 am
We need more creative teachers and yes, standardized testing just isn't fair to so many kids.
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shepaints
 
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Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2004 07:22 am
.....
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