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the consequences of the rebellion, and what Jehovah intends to do about it.

 
 
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 06:08 pm
As the title reads, " the consequences of the rebellion, and what Jehovah intends to do about it.

This is new to me and I would like to hear what others have to say about it.
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 06:18 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
As the title reads, " the consequences of the rebellion, and what Jehovah intends to do about it.

This is new to me and I would like to hear what others have to say about it.
Frank will love this!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 06:21 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Frank will love this!


Are you suggesting that Frank and Jehovah Witnesses have more in common than I realize?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 06:31 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
As the title reads, " the consequences of the rebellion, and what Jehovah intends to do about it.

This is new to me and I would like to hear what others have to say about it.
First, some starting points. Hopefully some will agree.
The word 'satan' means rebel or resistor.
We use upper case to refer to the Satan who fist manifested himself in the Garden of Eden.
Some would say he was correct in challenging Jehovah, but the bottom line is Jehovah is/was the boss and Satan resisted.

Adam and Eve died as warned. Just dead. No baking boiling, frying or broiling. But now we all die as Paul said in Romans 5:12 "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned."

So what does Jehovah intend to do about this situation? Would the most powerful entity in the universe be forced to abandon his purpose? Whether or not it will happen is subject to argument, but in Genesis 3:15, He promised "And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel."

Many put faith in this interpretation. Many more apparently don't.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 06:33 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
Quote:
Frank will love this!

Are you suggesting that Frank and Jehovah Witnesses have more in common than I realize?
Picture a ping pong table. Neo ping, Frank pong. Neo ping. Frank pong . . . . . .
reasoning logic
 
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Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 06:38 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Picture a ping pong table. Neo ping, Frank pong. Neo ping. Frank pong .


Even though I was rather good at ping pong it seems that you know something about it that I do not. Wink
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 06:47 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
Quote:
Picture a ping pong table. Neo ping, Frank pong. Neo ping. Frank pong .


Even though I was rather good at ping pong it seems that you know something about it that I do not. Wink
I know what it is like posting with Frank
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 06:52 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
I know what it is like posting with Frank


I truly do like frank and I like you as well. I hope that over the years that you will show the same respect toward others as frank has. Frank is not into belittling others even though he may joke at times he does not get off on disrespecting others no matter how much he may disagree.

Do not get me wrong because just as I fail at being civil, I can only guess Frank has the same problems at times even though that is not an interest of ours.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 08:48 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
Quote:
I know what it is like posting with Frank
I truly do like frank and I like you as well. I hope that over the years that you will show the same respect toward others as frank has. Frank is not into belittling others even though he may joke at times he does not get off on disrespecting others no matter how much he may disagree.

Do not get me wrong because just as I fail at being civil, I can only guess Frank has the same problems at times even though that is not an interest of ours.
Frank is a real fine fellow with only one (well maybe more) fault and I tell you this in secret Frank is from New Jersey! Laughing
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
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Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 09:33 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

The word 'satan' means rebel or resistor.


Where do you get this meaning from?

All of the dictionaries have "satan" meaning "adversary."

Wikipedia goes further and defines "satan" as noun derived from a verb meaning to "obstruct" or "oppose" in Hebrew. When it appears as "ha-satan" or "the satan" it means "the accuser" or "the adversary."
neologist
 
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Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 10:45 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
neologist wrote:
The word 'satan' means rebel or resistor.
Where do you get this meaning from?

All of the dictionaries have "satan" meaning "adversary."

Wikipedia goes further and defines "satan" as noun derived from a verb meaning to "obstruct" or "oppose" in Hebrew. When it appears as "ha-satan" or "the satan" it means "the accuser" or "the adversary."
OK, I'll go with adversary, obstructor, opposer, resistor, even rival. In Satan's case that would make him a rebel, since he was under Jehovah's sovereignty.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 09:12 am
@neologist,
Quote:
In Satan's case that would make him a rebel, since he was under Jehovah's sovereignty.


Being a rebel is not always a bad thing. I think that we should rebel against certain beliefs if they are destructive to us and others around us.

God said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all your people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among whom you are shall see the work of the LORD: for it is an awesome thing that I will do with you.

God seems as if he wants people to think he is awesome here,

God said Observe you that which I command you this day: behold, I drive out before you the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite

That was not awesome that is what other old world apes do as well, They go into neighboring land and kill off other apes.

God said you shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

It seems that God did not have an understanding why people were different and stereotyped them all as being evil if they were different than his flock, he was unable to see that not every one of his enemies were bad people.

God said you shall worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

He seems like a jealous husband.



God said All that opens the matrix is mine; and every firstling among your cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
But the firstling of an ass you shall redeem with a lamb: and if you redeem him not, then shall you break his neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

God seemed to be greedy and wanted the first of everything.

God said Thrice in the year shall all your male children appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.

God did not think woman should participate, I wonder why?

God said For I will cast out the nations before you, and enlarge your borders
God seems to think that lager borders are better
Seems that God had to kill off others instead of making a larger earth. I wonder why god just didn't create some magic and make it all happen without the suffering of his people?

When leaders behave how I seen this one behaving I think it might be a good idea to find a new person to follow,
Sometimes rebellion could be seen as evolving.


neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 01:40 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
Quote:
In Satan's case that would make him a rebel, since he was under Jehovah's sovereignty.


Being a rebel is not always a bad thing. I think that we should rebel against certain beliefs if they are destructive to us and others around us. . .
Sorry to cut you short. This is a pain on a cell phone. Also, I'm a man of few words. There's no way I would bother with all of your concerns if you can't see fit to post them separately.

That being said I consider myself a rebel against all the scriptural BS I see being spewed from day to day, century to century
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 03:54 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

OK, I'll go with adversary, obstructor, opposer, resistor, even rival. In Satan's case that would make him a rebel, since he was under Jehovah's sovereignty.


Your meaning doesn't follow, though. Used alone "satan" is a verb. When it appears as "ha-satan" it is used as a noun with a different meaning than the verb. Where do you get this meaning from?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 07:51 pm
@reasoning logic,
One thing at I time, I have work to do.
reasoning logic wrote:
. . .Seems that God had to kill off others instead of making a larger earth. . . .
No earth could be large enough to accommodate those Baal worshipers who sacrificed their children by burning them (alive) in sacrifice to their gods.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 07:57 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
neologist wrote:
OK, I'll go with adversary, obstructor, opposer, resistor, even rival. In Satan's case that would make him a rebel, since he was under Jehovah's sovereignty.
Your meaning doesn't follow, though. Used alone "satan" is a verb. When it appears as "ha-satan" it is used as a noun with a different meaning than the verb. Where do you get this meaning from?
I'm not sure what you are getting at. Satan is referred to as an individual over 50 times in the Bible.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 08:04 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
No earth could be large enough to accommodate those Baal worshipers who sacrificed their children by burning them (alive) in sacrifice to their gods.


We all had very evil people in our societies and there were many terrible things done by your ancestors, we will be viewed in the same light by those who come after us.
What would you expect in earlier stages of evolution?

When Jephthah was victorious in battle against the children of Ammon he vowed to sacrifice to God whatsoever comes to greet him at the door when he returned home. The vow is stated in Judges 11:31
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 09:05 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
When Jephthah was victorious in battle against the children of Ammon he vowed to sacrifice to God whatsoever comes to greet him at the door when he returned home. The vow is stated in Judges 11:31
Tell us how that worked out
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 09:24 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Tell us how that worked out


I do not know if I would believe it but this is part of the story

Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said: 'If Thou wilt indeed deliver the children of Ammon into my hand, then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, it shall be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt-offering

And Jephthah came to Mizpah unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances; and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. And she said unto him: 'My father, thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD; do unto me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; for as much as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.'And she said unto her father: 'Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may depart and go down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my companions.' And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed; and she had not known man.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 May, 2013 11:47 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
Quote:
Tell us how that worked out

I do not know if I would believe it but this is part of the story

Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said: 'If Thou wilt indeed deliver the children of Ammon into my hand, then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, it shall be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt-offering

And Jephthah came to Mizpah unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances; and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. And she said unto him: 'My father, thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD; do unto me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; for as much as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.'And she said unto her father: 'Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may depart and go down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my companions.' And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed; and she had not known man.
Do you truly suppose he was considering human sacrifice, like the Baal worshipers? I'm sure he never expected his daughter to be the the one who cam to meet him; but parents had the right to devote their children to God as in the case of Samuel , for example. The fact that all involved respected the vow shows the degree of importance Jehovah attaches to vows.

BTW, if you don't believe it, why be concerned with it?
 

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