More (much more) dinosaur soft tissue turning up

gunga said:

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Nonetheless, chickens have all of those things and you might wonder what keeps chickens from ever completely regaining normal flight capabilities. The basic answer is that the chicken as we know it started out as a little two-pound jungle fowl (related to pheasants) and was bred into a 6-lb. meat animal, but still has the 2-lb bird’s wings. Geese are as heavy as chickens and fly easily enough because they have the wings necessary for a 7-lb bird.

Consider that man raises chickens in gigantic abundance, and that chickens were never kept in cages until recent times. Consider the numbers of such chickens which must have escaped in all of recorded history...

Look in the sky overhead: where are all of their wild-living descendants?? Why are there no wild chickens in the skies above us???

In other words, if there's any chance whatsoever of a non-flying creature evolving into a flying bird, then surely the escaped chicken, close as it is, could RE-EVOLVE back into being a flying bird. They're only missing the tiniest fraction of whatever is involved.

They've got wings, tails, and flight feathers, the system for pivoting flight feathers, the light bone structure, flow-through lungs, high-efficiency heart, beaks, and the whole nine yards. In their domestic state, they can fly albeit badly; they are entirely similar to what you might expect of an evolutionist's proto-bird, in the final stage of evolving into a flight-worthy condition.

According to evolutionist dogma, at least a few of these should very quickly finish evolving back into something like a normal flying bird, once having escaped, and then the progeny of those few should very quickly fill the skies.

But the sky holds no wild chickens. In real life, against real settings, real predators, real conditions, the imperfect flight features do not suffice to save them.

A. There are in fact wild chickens, and several related species like guinea hens (which used to ramble into our unfenced backyard when I was really little in Georgia, one of the few memories I have from before I was three), and they can fly, as can domestic chickens. They can roost and nest in trees, and will do so in need. As I said, there are soaring birds birds that spend most of their time on the ground, and will fly at need, chickens being an example of the latter. Different niches, different functions. You're wrong.

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Or in the words of the great Mississippi songster, Mississippi John Hurt,

Oh, chicken, chicken, you can't roost too high for me.
Oh, chicken, chicken, come on out of that tree.
Oh, chicken, chicken, chicken, you can't roost too high for me.
C is the way it begins.
H, the next letter then,
I am the third.
C, what a seasonly bird.
K is to fill him in.
E, I'm near the end.
C-H-I-C-K-E-N,
That's the way you spell chicken

That was just eighty years ago. Give a domestic chicken a generation where it has to forage for its own food, instead of being given as much as it can eat, and you'll be back to chickens roosting in trees full time. Extra growth has energy costs, and if they forage they won't get that big. And their wings are not vestigial.

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@MontereyJack,

Or, they will die, in either case, the rules are obeyed . I would imagine that, should we turn all domestic turkeys loose, they wouldn't "revert" to their wild cousins, theyd just go dead mostly by predation.

Theres no expectation that , if we turn domestic animals loose, (especially those weve "engineered") would they automatically revert to the wild state. I imagine that most of them would just die. I think many chickens (like Bantams or dual purpose breeds, would revert fairly easily cause , if they are allowed open range, they will automatically forage rather than run only to a food trough and then they roost high in trees at night.) Theres some habits they retain from their wild state.

Most dogs would crash (mostly succumbing to diseases like sarcoptic mange or rabies), Im sure there would be a "feral dog interbreed" that would interbreed with other breeds/ coyotes , or like those eastern coyote/wolf hybrids that are starting to show up in Quebec/ Ontario and Upper New York State.

Itd be an interesting lab to see qhat becomes a top tier survivor.

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@gungasnake,

Quote:

Look in the sky overhead: where are all of their wild-living descendants??

jungle hens, prairie "chickens" pheasants are cousins and they aren't long distance flyers. They are "Burst fom cover" short flight bird that use flight as a means of escape (after running doesn't work)

Youd never "look into the skies" and see flocs of wild chickens even fom thwir wild state. They run, lay in cover, then burst into flight like a shot. Or they fly into trees. There are lots of youtube movies showing how strategis for hunting jungle hens are usd by cervils or leaopards. They sneak up on the chickens with their smell and then , as the chicken takes off, the cervils leap to where they expect the chicken to be in the air in the next moments.

Its a strategy to which the chickens have countered by fecundity and breeding ALL THE TIME

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@gungasnake,

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Not in our own gravity; in their gravity, there was no problem.

Im sure you will get around to present evidence on the "Their different gravity" hypothesis.

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@gungasnake,

Yes, I think most of Evolution is a crock. What is prehistory is scientifically bound to extrapolation. You notice that almost no E. folks will even consider that scientific laws evolve.

Several great scientists have pointed this out, starting with C S Peirce and most famously today by Leo Smolin
The Evolution of the Laws of Physics - Lee Smolin (SETI Talks )

I would like to ask "IF there is dinosaur soft tissue what do you draw from that?" but I always get the avoiding reply "But I don't think there is". BUT IF THERE IS

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@gungasnake,

good job bro

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@ajgv555,

Soft tissue of early birdlike reptiles have been discovered and the fossil material has been shown to be a polymerized fatty acid tissue thats been converted to a "cadaverine" like polymer (happens in mummies that are deposited in acidic bogs or peat deposits. The neat thing is that weve discovered another fossilization mechanism and its associated unique chemistry s well as the evolving lung tissue on proto Bird-like Theropoda (even before Archeopteryx) that were developing larger lungs that were a necessary feature before the archeopterices and proto aves birds could actually fly. (Everybody of the Creation club has been kvetching about evolution of feather structures, when actually the lung capacity for flying was actually a greater feat of evolution. Feathers were already a feature in early Theropods but e didnt know much about lung capacity
Ill post some more as the information from National Xiengung University

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More (much more) dinosaur soft tissue turning up

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