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Capitalism...

 
 
rufio
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 01:39 pm
Holding anything up to popular myth is idiotic too, whether you're talking about the American economic system, or the bible, or an urban legend - what do you think we're proving that we don't know already? Do you think that just because people use catch-phrases all over the place they actually believe them?
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 05:55 pm
ConstantlyQuestioning wrote:
Quote:
the term is rather self defining of a civilization which humanity's (over all humanity not just the individual) needs are looked at.


I normally reject any principle that places the individual as a subordinate to some undefined common group's unspecified good. You can't determine what is right for humanity by dismissing the rights of the individual. What is right for the individual IS right for humanity.


well see I didn't say the individual is a subordinate at all. My theories point towards equality in all respect no hierarchy and everyones NEEDS being looked at - no one being dismissed because they don't have medical coverage. I specified overall humanity not JUST the individual because the society we live in (over all) looks at the individual needs rather than the societies the communities needs. Can be viewed as just looking into common neighborhoods in most large cities. People can live next to each other and never know the person next to them. (thats not a defining point rather a simple example thereof).

what is right for the individual ??? is right for humanity??? uhmm ya.. gona have to disagree. Not because its untrue. I do agree with that statement but just as my theory will never work, what you said does not has not and will not work because the word 'right'. The words right wrong moral or immoral are all redefined in each persons perspective and some peoples perspective are akin to ted bundies, charles manson and others who are well 'not all there'. As well as some people in charge have distorted views about right and wrong and well some are plum raciest and feel it's 'right' to lynch people.

but I do appreciate your input rather than 'your wrong... why? because your wrong and idiotic' ya well to continue.

ConstantlyQuestioning wrote:
Quote:
Also, a 'ruling' class or hierarchy is revealed to be as ineffective and uneeded as it actually is.


When was this revealed? Despite the existence of rights, there are those that will seek the cheap road in life by violating the rights of others. The government is in place to protect people from those who would violate their rights.


ok well this is where I get a bit misanthropic. Also, i fall back onto agreeing with your statement of "whats right for the individual is right for humanity" where as the hierarchy and ruling class systems have never been over all 'good' for humanity - in fact in all 'government' types of societies (well major ones anyways) they have fell at one point or another. Be it a monarchy or a republic. I look at the failure after failure after failure and think.. 'perhaps a government isn't the way to go?' and why do they fail? insurgence of corruption.. face it, the probability that a corrupt person will get in power eventually is rather likely. I don't mean piddly corrupt I mean someone who is just outrageous corruption. and to say that has not already happen is naive.

It is just the U.S. Gov't is pretty good with the checks and balances and the democratic rather than autocratic style of leadership. (we are a democracy by the way) if you want it to be or not - if the constitution says it or not is irrelevant. we are suppose to be a democracy where the majority rule through reps and the common good is looked at and a government will 'rule' for the people. that is a democracy - True that america has merged democracy with the theories of a republic but in the basal theory we are supposed to be more of a democracy. To me that whole theory now is used as a way to blind people to the fact that they have no power whatsoever but thats a conspiracy theory bubbling out.

ConstantlyQuestioning wrote:
Quote:
doesnt it seem to you that the economic system of the 'most money wins' has pushed our demoncracy asunder?


All the paid for TV ads in the world will not help the candidate win if he doesn't have the votes. It's not he with the most money wins, it's he with the most votes win. Now a good follow up question here would be, aren't people more likely to vote for the candidate with the most number of flashy, opponent-insulting ads? Yes of course, but that is not a fault of capitalism, but of the gullibility of the voting body.


Ah ah ah.. don't be so quick to absolve capitalism of this sin friend. ok the postceeding (my word) will be a bit umm.. of a stretch and a bit off the wall but work with me because this is my observations. I see a 24 million dollar contract going to jay leno yet teachers in inner cities who work 90 hours plus a week for their students get 50,000 a year.

I see the worst football player in the NFL who RARELY plays get hundreds of thousands of dollars a year - yet i also see the U.S. Soldiers putting their lifes on the line protecting their country getting 16,000 a year.

i see bill gates' house which is as large as some small countries (not a direct comparison of course but you get the point) yet children all over the country are thrown infront of televisions nightly and are mal-parented because their single mom or dad has to work 3 jobs to pay for their 1 bedroom apartment.

over all children's scores in school are going down and its just accumulation till some point the techtonic plates of society are going to shift and it seems to me somthing bad will happen.

a survey was taken of people walking in a mall, it was 10 or so questions and the questions where short answer form so you couldnt just circle 'abacadaba'. The guy taking the survey was a psychology prof and made the questions so you'd respond how you actually felt. The results were that 70 % of the people said they thought bush was doing a horrible job.. yet 75% said they'd reelect him..

I feel that the corperations compeeting to get your fat ass dirty dollar anyway they can has drown thought and reason on the scale of the masses. So, I do feel its the fault of capitalism for the 'gulibility' of the masses.. shrug.. just mah little r/\nt
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 05:56 pm
rufio wrote:
Holding anything up to popular myth is idiotic too, whether you're talking about the American economic system, or the bible, or an urban legend - what do you think we're proving that we don't know already? Do you think that just because people use catch-phrases all over the place they actually believe them?



please expound
0 Replies
 
rufio
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 07:05 pm
If you can't understand that, I really don't feel the need.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 05:22 am
visavis wrote:
wow.. just.. oh my goodness wow.. have you a knack for MISSING THE COMPLETE F***ING POINT lol and not paying attention.. that post was more of research i have read about.. 'some feel this is how aids and cancer have come about' much more than own opinion jeez your dense. that was the first burst that came out as i read your horrific reply.

Talk about a horrific attitude! You implied that medical science should not attempt to stop miscarriages because they are the body's way of getting rid of deformed babies, and deformed babies are the cause of cancer and AIDS:
visavis wrote:
Humans - and do not confuse this with a hitleristic view this is objective. but humans save babies which were otherwise going to be miscarried. Researchers for years have observed that human females bodies have many checks in place to miscarry a fetus if there is a harmful diformity yet with modern medical advances we can save these children and they will survive and reproduce themselves further causing deformity. many feel this is how cancer and AIDS has come about.

Anyone who read your post would come to the conclusion that you think that deformed babies should be allowed to die, if not killed outright.

If what you said was not what you meant, you need to learn to express yourself more clearly - and without resorting to vulgarity!

As I said before, AIDS and cancer have nothing to do with physical deformities. If you know of any research that links them, please post your source.

I am often amazed at the ridiculous things people believe. I wish our schools would spend more time developing critical thinking skills in students so that they could distinguish science from pseudoscience and not be taken in any crackpot theory they hear.

Quote:
second.... after i stopped the laughter.. this shows YOUR ignorance (about the whole thing of the female being able to miscarry based on the fetus being 'defective') there is ALOT of research showing that the female body has MANY natural defenses set up to allow only the strongest to reproduce.

I do know a lot about female anatomy, since I have given birth twice and you obviously have a lot to learn. Laughing As I said, physical deformities in the fetus do not cause miscarriages. Failure to produce the right chemicals does. So do you think that all of the babies born with defects should be killed "for the good of the species," or what?

Quote:
one being psychological.. women (as do men) seek out the 'best suited' and others psyiologically, in apes and lions its prominant from this one reasearchers studies ... females will over all succumb to a male's advance but their bodies will not allow fertalization.

If the female is fertile, any male she allows to mate with her can impregnate her. Fertilization does not depend on genetic "suitability."

I'm guessing that you cannot remember any of the other alleged defenses against deformity. How convenient that you cannot remember your sources, since I suspect that you haphazardly conflated some odd bits of information that happened to stick in your mind.

Quote:
and ill mention.. charlottes web. Great childrens book about interference in natural selection.

[sigh] If reading Charlotte's Web is your idea of research, no wonder you have such skewed notions. I figured you were young, but ... Laughing

Quote:
to reply to your last three questions.. well all ill do is reinterate.. I am talking about non interference.. as in NON INTERFERENCE were as right now we ARE INTERFERING..

Counting is not one of your strong points. Neither is reading comprehension. Laughing

Quote:
humanities needs are self decisive in that whatever helps to perpetuate the species and helps the survival of the species and the earth is a basel 'need'

No, the needs are NOT "self decisive." There are conflicting needs among individuals, groups, and nations, and that is why some form of government is required to make rules and resolve conflicts. Anarchy simply does not work. You may not like capitalism, but it is the best system we have come up with.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 05:26 am
joefromchicago wrote:
Terry: It appears that the ban on posting idiotic crap does not apply to the person who instituted the ban. I think that qualifies as "irony."


It seems that irony is wasted here. So is any attempt at intelligent discussion. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
ConstantlyQuestioning
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 07:54 am
Quote:
People can live next to each other and never know the person next to them.


Yep. I'm one of them. I couldn't tell you the name of my neighbors, and I've lived next to them for about 3 years.

Quote:
The words right wrong moral or immoral are all redefined in each persons perspective


I reject ethical relativism.

Quote:
and some peoples perspective are akin to ted bundies, charles manson and others who are well 'not all there'. As well as some people in charge have distorted views about right and wrong and well some are plum raciest and feel it's 'right' to lynch people.


Those people are wrong.

Quote:

uhmm ya.. gona have to disagree. Not because its untrue. I do agree with that statement but just as my theory will never work


Then maybe you should revise your theory. You can't make a theory that ignores reality work within reality.

Quote:
where as the hierarchy and ruling class systems have never been over all 'good' for humanity


I think our government has been good for us. We experience the highest standard of living on the planet. Even the poorest among us are wealthier then most people in other third world countries. Seems like something is working right.

Quote:
if the constitution says it or not is irrelevant.


I'd hardly call our supreme document of law "irrelevant".

Quote:
we are suppose to be a democracy


No, the founding fathers were well aware of the dangers of mob rule. That's why they created a near-perfect system where the will of the people is taken into account, but it is not the be all, end all of policy setting. The people are supposed to have a voice in the government, not dictate the government.

Quote:
I see a 24 million dollar contract going to jay leno yet teachers in inner cities who work 90 hours plus a week for their students get 50,000 a year.


Our society obviously values Jay Leno's work more than a teachers. That's the fault of poor education, not capitalism.

Quote:
I see the worst football player in the NFL who RARELY plays get hundreds of thousands of dollars a year - yet i also see the U.S. Soldiers putting their lifes on the line protecting their country getting 16,000 a year.


Sadly our society values football players more than soldiers. Again, the fault of poor education and misplaced values, not capitalism.

Quote:
i see bill gates' house which is as large as some small countries (not a direct comparison of course but you get the point) yet children all over the country are thrown infront of televisions nightly and are mal-parented because their single mom or dad has to work 3 jobs to pay for their 1 bedroom apartment.


I don't fault Bill at all for enjoying the fruits of his labor. He has provided us all with a very useful tool that we use on a near daily basis. He's made all our lives a tad bit easier and deserves to be rewarded for it.

Quote:
fat ass dirty dollar


Great TOOL reference Laughing

Quote:
I feel that the corperations compeeting to get your fat ass dirty dollar anyway they can has drown thought and reason on the scale of the masses. So, I do feel its the fault of capitalism for the 'gulibility' of the masses..


I blame government education and the intentional dumbing down of our society.
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 03:57 pm
rufio wrote:
If you can't understand that, I really don't feel the need.


dude.. wow.. i asked you to continue speaking about it, get more indepth - what you said was not very 'full' i understood it perfectly.
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 04:00 pm
wow.. again wow.. i couldnt finish reading your post.. from manipulating what i said and putting words in my mouth and offering your mistaken opinion about what i 'believe' ya.. re-read what i wrote cause you missed it.. severely
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 04:04 pm
lol perhaps its me.. but when i hear someone reject 'ethical relativism' and label that on my statement of 'The words right wrong moral or immoral are all redefined in each persons perspective' which is NOT ethical relativism at all.. its fustrating.. i feel as if talking to my guitar would be more conducive to somthing intellectual..

never did i advocate killing babies deformed or otherwise open your eyes..

learn how to read people
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 04:15 pm
Re: Capitalism...
Terry wrote:
So can you tell us, visavis, why you should have a monopoly on posting "crap" here? Although I must admit that you have done an outstanding job of it! :wink:

The choices in your poll, for instance. Where did you get the idea that the US government is, or should be, a purely capitalistic one?

-its satire-

1. Laws are passed to meet the demands of various interest groups, including tobacco farmers and anti-smoking groups. After 2 centuries of lawmaking, of course we end up with a hodgepodge of inconsistent regulations that reflect conflicting philosophies and needs.


-duh.. the hodgepodge is the direct object of my satire its a waste of money and its hurting more than it helps -


2. Social security DOES help those it is supposed to, whether or not you agree with who or how much it aids them.

-perhaps you should go find out how much social security is actually helping.. -


3. We have socialistic (not communistic) government programs because we can afford to temper capitalism with humanity.

-we do have several socialistic programs but we do have many communistic and dont fog up '..temper capitalism with humanity' with people posing for photoshoots giving money to people who need it then when the cameras are off they run.. its all over the place throughout most political offices AND WE CANNOT AFFORD IT, even if we could we could stop the counterproducitive programs and use that to enhance the programs that are actually in place to help people who need it-




4. Anyone who meets the minimum qualifications can run for political office, and in this state we usually have at least half a dozen choices for president. No one is forced to vote for the candidate with the most money "regardless of intellect." If most people are lazy or stupid enough to vote for whoever runs the most ads, they get the government they deserve. Regrettably, the rest of us are also stuck with the government they deserve. That's democracy for you. Sad

-number 1 why are they so dumb? number 2 no one is forced to vote period understood thats a freedom thats great but the people who do vote never see people like alen keys or other great candidates that just could not finacially hold in there while ralf nader runs time after time.. the people need to take back the government-
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 04:27 pm
<<Sadly our society values football players more than soldiers. Again, the fault of poor education and misplaced values, not capitalism. >>


your agreeing with me but your putting a different name on it fortunatly calling somthing by a different name does not change it. You are saying that our society values football players and jay leno etc more than teachers and soldiers ok well on the teachers place.. why is there a crappy govt education system? because teachers dont cause the government to get any money. Why is pot illegal yet alcohol and cigarettes legal? because pot would not give any revenu to the government yet alcohol and cigs do.. ya know what your probably not going to pay attention to this either and just pull out one line out of context like everyone else has and that will be that so im gona stop... i have much more important things to do like doing absolutly nothing than continue this benign conversation. the bottem line is you all have not opened your eyes and no one will till the society tumbles you say we have a near perfect system in place? how long has this system been up and running and how long was the roman empire up and running 'near perfectly' yet rome fell and compare the time lines to the american government.. and look at what happen in romes society and look at whats happening in american society.. juxtapose and BAM enlightment follows.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 04:35 pm
I feel like I've been cheated. I live to read Joe's idiotic crap. :wink:
(nothing he's posted here qualifies)
0 Replies
 
rufio
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 10:10 pm
I think I made it pretty clear, vis. Do you want it clearer? Should I type it in all caps, would that make it easier to read?

WHAT'S YOUR FREAKING POINT?
0 Replies
 
ConstantlyQuestioning
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 10:30 pm
Quote:
ya know what your probably not going to pay attention to this either and just pull out one line out of context like everyone else has and that will be that so im gona stop...


Calm down, jeez. I thought our conversation was going well.

Quote:
the bottem line is you all have not opened your eyes and no one will till the society tumbles


translation: No one will open their eyes and agree with my superior wisdom.

Quote:
you say we have a near perfect system in place? how long has this system been up and running and how long was the roman empire up and running 'near perfectly' yet rome fell and compare the time lines to the american government.. and look at what happen in romes society and look at whats happening in american society.. juxtapose and BAM enlightment follows.

lol perhaps its me.. but when i hear someone reject 'ethical relativism' and label that on my statement of 'The words right wrong moral or immoral are all redefined in each persons perspective' which is NOT ethical relativism at


Well we could discuss and debate about specific traits of government and ours in particular; or we could get into an ethical debate so I can demonstrate that a morality that is "defined by each person's perspective" is by defintion ethical relativism,

but....

Quote:
i feel as if talking to my guitar would be more conducive to somthing intellectual..

i have much more important things to do like doing absolutly nothing than continue this benign conversation.


....I wouldn't want to take up any more of your precious time.
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2004 08:49 pm
explain this

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=507514
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2004 08:54 pm
...Now, as people in Baghdad rush through the streets yelling "Bush! Bush!" and thrusting thumbs in the air, at the al-Rashid Hotel a decade-long insult has been removed - by a military commanded by a son who waged a second war on Iraq and insisted it wasn't personal.

and this
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2004 08:55 pm
"You know all that money that we spend on nuclear weapons and defense every year, trillions of dollars, correct? Instead, INSTEAD, let us play with this: If we spent that money feeding and clothing the poor of the world and it would pay for it many times over not ONE human being excluded, we could as one race explore outer space together in peace forever."

-Bill Hicks 16 Dec 1961 - 26 Feb 1994.




you get the drift
0 Replies
 
visavis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2004 09:01 pm
"...it was just not financially advantageous to be anti-terrorist back then. It was not 'cool', but now the cameras and media attention are on it.. its the new fad. Popular bumper sticker reads: "The power of pride" with an American flag behind it. I feel it should read: "The power of ignorance." With the fast pace of modern America no one has time to look in the past. I feel that inability will be our downfall as a country."


proceed
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2004 09:09 pm
visavis wrote:
"You know all that money that we spend on nuclear weapons and defense every year, trillions of dollars, correct?
Nope. Not even close. Not if you added the entire world's expenditures together. I agree that we could, and probably should try to provide basic sustenance to the starving masses, but that statement is still ridiculous. Plus, there are venues where we couldn't feed the people without first fighting their oppressor. Check out North Korea for an example of this.
0 Replies
 
 

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