128
   

How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sat 23 Sep, 2017 06:54 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Leadfoot Quote:
"Be glad to. Works both ways though."


Do you think there could be a possibility that there could be others who have studied the subject at hand and may be more informed by the thousands of hours that they have invested studying behavior?

Certainly. I don't have an exclusive on figuring out what 'all this' is about. I've benefitted greatly from the insights of many others.

I've spent a good 63 years devoted to the general subject of this thread but I meet everyone, beginner or highly qualified as an equal in the 'battle of ideas' and expect the same of others. An appeal to authority is a bogus argument to anyone who honors reason and logic.

I respect study and experience but I do not bow down to it. Neither do I submit to dogma so I am used to dismissal by the religious and secular alike but I will gladly discuss the subject with anyone as long as they stick to reason. If we have to resort to insult, we've lost the argument.

0 Replies
 
cameronleon
 
  0  
Sat 23 Sep, 2017 07:33 pm
@brianjakub,
Quote:

Well we are far from verifying a god never existed. And we have a lot of evidence that one still does.


I have performed lots of studies about the bible. I have spent years deciphering lots of obscure passages, and as a troubleshooter I have successfully found the answer for many of those hard to understand passages.

Now, let me explain you that the translation of the ancient Hebrew in all the versions, including the most prestigious Jewish ones, have errors and those tell you of miracles that never happened, events which occurred in a different way, and so forth. And this is due to the different structure of the ancient Hebrew compared with the modern Hebrew plus the changes of words, several of them with apparent error of spelling or words that were not in use anymore or that have expired.

With a solid background about what the bible says, I can't assure that a god exists.

I can give my opinion that yes, the narration implies that the writers were inspired and there is a possibility that the model is a being with great wisdom.

But that this being not necessarily must be a god, of course, it can be a god, but no one can prove it.

And no one can prove it because there is no evidence of such an existence.

You can argue that the sole existence of humans is enough to prove that a god exists because by chance our intelligence can't arise up, or by chance the mechanical work of our eyes can't be possible, and several scenarios where you can estate that they can be possible only under the direction and design of a master mind.

Unfortunately, that is just conjecture, it is accumulation of evidence that the phenomena exist, but it doesn't prove that a god exist.

Taking away my skeptical opinion from the point of view using science, I do believe that there is something beyond our perception, that it has an extraordinary knowledge, wisdom, and can be the model that inspired the writing of the bible.

However, this is a belief, not so an evidence.

peacecrusader888
 
  1  
Sat 23 Sep, 2017 09:30 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
As the title reads "How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?" I have my ideas and I would like to hear some of yours before I share mine.


According to the spirit of Ama, "There is no right religion. Do you know, children, which is right? Recognize Jesus Christ as true God and true man...You will be saved by any religion because you will pick out what is right and discard what is evil. What will save you will be your own work and faith in the true God."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 23 Sep, 2017 11:17 pm
@peacecrusader888,
The Bible has over 1200 pages that includes errors, omissions and contradictions. All that verbiage is not necessary, if you treat all living things with dignity, love and respect.
peacecrusader888
 
  0  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 12:11 am
The answer that I gave is from the spirit of Ama. How can we be united as one is there were Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Church of Christ, etc.?
0 Replies
 
peacecrusader888
 
  -1  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 12:23 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The Bible has over 1200 pages that includes errors, omissions and contradictions. All that verbiage is not necessary, if you treat all living things with dignity, love and respect.


True, there are errors, omissions and contradictions in the Holy Bible. That is why the spirit of Ama said that we should use the King James Version because it is "nearer the truth" (than other versions). He also told us to read Pasiong Mahal, a book that is chanted in the Philippines during Holy Week.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 07:31 am
@cameronleon,
Yeah, it kind of bothers me too, why a God who wants us to believe in faith, would leave all this smoking gun evidence around. Kind of takes the glory out of faith, don't it?
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 04:29 am
@Leadfoot,
Were all those other books that Little Jerome saw to it that they wouldnt make the cut for the" RC Vulgate" not divinely inspired??
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 05:23 am
@peacecrusader888,
Don't you think it would be better if the spirit of Ama actually told you something useful like a cure for cancer? That way people might think it was something other than an audio hallucination.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 07:21 am
@farmerman,
Depends on what you mean by divinely inspired. If God exists, there is nothing that is not divinely inspired.

As far as reliability of the message in the book, it is my opinion that it was both so cleverly encoded and at the same time hidden in plain sight that it was impossible for anyone not familiar with it to purge it even if they wanted to.

I'd compare it to genetics. Even once you've completely decoded the genome, you still don't understand it until you've mastered Epigenetics and probably more.
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 08:17 am
@Leadfoot,
No, there are stop codons and transcription editing segments that lead to insertion of new information as responses to the environment. The religious "roadmaps" seem to me to be waay more inviolate.

As far a diivinely inspired, (its your term not mine), Jerome the diminutive was kinda the big mahaff who decided whether Jubilees or Mark was in the Vulgate
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 01:52 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Were all those other books that Little Jerome saw to it that they wouldnt make the cut for the" RC Vulgate" not divinely inspired??

Did you bring 'divinely inspired' up here or not?

And how did we get into stop codons? Yeah, they are there, they are part of the genome. I don’t see where you’re going with this.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 02:14 pm
@Leadfoot,
From organic P-chem at the grad level, I probably have an MS equiv of lab and class hours in genetics.
So you seem to deny the "tossed books" of the vulgate. That Wee Jerome had no choice but to select the books he did to give to the Holy See .

You decode the genome first then all else gets revealed through time and work. The biggest findings in my life are the undertqndings of the Commonality of genes in ALL life and the "building up" of the various genera and seeing common ancestry (like a hyrax and an elephant, a human and a bonobo, a wasp and an ant or a manatee and a hippo) Underlying it all is the unoque erived genomes of the cichlid fihes tht hqve been exposed to unique environmental stresses an hve evolved into other genera by divergent evolution.

Im reserving Transposable elements and epigenetics till I better understand the Lamarkian sense therein. I have to plead a great deal of ignorance about "junk DNA and its use in stuff like convergence or Punctuated Equilibrium(or even saltation which has always been a no-no)
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 03:23 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
So you seem to deny the "tossed books" of the vulgate. That Wee Jerome had no choice but to select the books he did to give to the Holy See .
I probably know less about the evolution of the bible than you. Any observation I make about it is based on the book as it exists today (KJV if it makes any difference). I first read it a decade after I became a theist and when I did I expected it to contradict everything I thought I knew. I was F'n surprised.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 05:55 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
So you seem to deny the "tossed books" of the vulgate. That Wee Jerome had no choice but to select the books he did to give to the Holy See .
The Christian faith was being taught from the dawn of man if you believe the stories of the bible.
Quote:
15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel." 16To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."…
The supposed first woman was already being told here to start looking for a savior. So, the first day of the Roman Catholic Faith as told (first orally and then recorded later in text, and then later compiled in the Septuagint, and then later compiled in the Vulgate) by this story would be that day. I would suggest that would date should reasonably assumed to be in the same period that the first human fossils were produced.

So wee Jerome already new the story before the bible was compiled. He was taught he story was being passed word of mouth in stories and traditions, which were soon codified in scripture. These stories were explained to twelve men over several years by a man that claimed to be there when the universe was created, and when those words above were supposedly spoken to Eve, and everywhere in between, because he claimed to be the Alpha and Omega. The living word of God. The Truth. The way. ETC . . . If you were one of those 12 men, and you were an educated Jew who was well versed in all the stories in the Septugant and you had access to this supposed God for many years, wouldn't you ask him to explain the Septuagint and all the science and history behind it to you, . Since scriptures were being recorded and people were being systematically taught soon after this God left the earth don't you think wee Jerome might have been well versed in this knowledge before the bible was compiled so that he would be able to tell which books should be included and which shouldn't. It seems like you think all these guys didn't take this responsibility seriously and were morons. (If anyone was a moron it was Jesus. Either that or he was God. Must have told a helluva story though) How did the original storytellers die. That might reveal how serious they were.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 07:39 pm
@brianjakub,
Quote:
The Christian faith was being taught from the dawn of man if you believe the stories of the bible.
This will lead people to believe you think Christianity goes back to first Homo sapiens (presumably Adam and Eve). I don't think they necessarily were, but that gets us into a whole different area so I'll leave it at that.

But what do you think 'The dawn of Man' was?
brianjakub
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 08:19 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:

But what do you think 'The dawn of Man' was?
A time when an Omnipotent being introduced an intelligent sentient being into the universe first intellectually, and then physically. It seems to be quite the Soap Opera including perfection, Satan, family squabbles, murder sex, reconciliation and all those goodies.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 09:40 pm
@brianjakub,
KJV.contradictions. https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html
Also, why did your god ignore all those humans around the world before he decided to show up on earth 2000 years ago? A little late in human history, don't you think?
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence
0 Replies
 
cameronleon
 
  -2  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 11:06 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
From organic P-chem at the grad level, I probably have an MS equiv of lab and class hours in genetics.
So you seem to deny the "tossed books" of the vulgate. That Wee Jerome had no choice but to select the books he did to give to the Holy See .

You decode the genome first then all else gets revealed through time and work. The biggest findings in my life are the undertqndings of the Commonality of genes in ALL life and the "building up" of the various genera and seeing common ancestry (like a hyrax and an elephant, a human and a bonobo, a wasp and an ant or a manatee and a hippo) Underlying it all is the unoque erived genomes of the cichlid fihes tht hqve been exposed to unique environmental stresses an hve evolved into other genera by divergent evolution.

Im reserving Transposable elements and epigenetics till I better understand the Lamarkian sense therein. I have to plead a great deal of ignorance about "junk DNA and its use in stuff like convergence or Punctuated Equilibrium(or even saltation which has always been a no-no)


Wow! I have never read so much absurdity in one sole message.

The answer is very simple. The ancestor of the elephant, the human, the bonobo, the wasp, the ant, the manatee, the hippo and more, comes from ground. Ground has elements from which life has been formed. We share the same elements forming organic compounds, that's all.

The rest is crap, pure jargon and semantics.

The difference between learning genetics with learning the biblical doctrine, is that for genetics you must study it with your own effort. Hours and hours of reading and using labs.

I like what it is found from lab and observation, but laugh about the silly conclusions made by scientists when trying to prove evolution right when the lab and observation never show any evolution at all. Lol.

On the other hand, to learn the doctrine found in the bible, no study of hours and hours is needed. No, I myself can understand the doctrine without studying anything. I can study ancient Hebrew to verify the interpretation of words made by translators, but this is about language, not so about doctrine.

This is to say, that the bible can have thousands of errors, and even so the doctrine found in it is not affected at all because those errors.

There is a method, a way, a trick to understand the doctrine of the bible and understand each one of the purposes at each step. This understanding doesn't require studying but the surrender of the person and the appreciation of the wisdom found in it.

This is like to say, you finally obey and drive your car at 25 miles per hour in residential streets according to the law, and you appreciate such a law because at that speed you will be able to stop and avoid an accident if suddenly a child crosses the street in front of you.

Then you understand that such 25 miles per hour traffic law in that zone is a wise law.

The context of the law in writing might have many words misspelled in it, still the law is a wise law.

Same is when you find errors in the bible.

You have been obeying the traffic law of 25 miles per hour in residential zones for years without knowing why. And this is because the book you have studied to obtain your driver license won't explain you why there are 25, 35, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70 miles per hour streets, roads, highways, etc.

You just follow those rules.

In your case, the day you finally start to understand the different laws around you, it is possible that that day you might be ready to understand the meaning of the doctrine of the bible.

Until then, your ignorance still is keeping you writing nonsense after nonsense when is about religion.

reasoning logic
 
  0  
Tue 26 Sep, 2017 05:33 pm
@cameronleon,
Quote:
The answer is very simple. The ancestor of the elephant, the human, the bonobo, the wasp, the ant, the manatee, the hippo and more, comes from ground. Ground has elements from which life has been formed. We share the same elements forming organic compounds, that's all.


It seems that you may have studied a little organic chemistry or did you find bible verses that talk about these organic compounds or elements?
 

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