10
   

What is the Virtue of Admitting Ignorance?

 
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:12 pm
We await that "thinking" with great anticipation !
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:13 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Re: reasoning logic (Post 5261609)
RL You are a receptive respondent. I have no problem expanding my interpretation of philosophical trends for your benefit and intelligent criticism As for Frank's "understanding", we've all been waiting ten years or more for evidence of it !


I admit (although I prefer "acknowledge") my ignorance. Doesn't matter to me if that move is virtuous or evocative of virtue...I do it freely.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:14 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
We await that "thinking" with great anticipation !


Always willing to oblige!
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
No Frank, you don't do it "freely" !
You have a vested interest in "ignoring" the plethora of arguments against "naive realism" because they would destroy your simplistic view of "guessing" on which you have staked your intellectual integrity.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:25 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
I simply meant it as a demonstration that by "merely guessing" we can in a sense disprove dualism of truth values.
I acknowledge that I am not able to understand exactly what you mean here, but I can say this: I almost NEVER am attempting to “prove” or “disprove” anything when it comes to questions like REALITY. I readily acknowledge that I do not know what the REALITY is…so I am not a dualist or a non-dualist. I DO NOT KNOW…and either position could be the REALITY…and both could easily be wrong.
Quote:
If you assume dualism it leads you to non-dualism.

I’ll listen to the argument for that. I cannot accept it as an assertion.

The assertion was made by mathematicians (number theorists). They made this assumption. That assumption after many centuries of deduction which will require much education regarding mathematics and number theory led to a theorem by Kurt Godel. He used the assumption to prove that the assumption leads to unknowable truth values. He proved that within such a system (that makes the dualist assumption), there are "things" that are basically neither wholly "true" nor wholly "false". Dualism was used to disprove absolute dualism.
[you should like this Frank, it should resonate with you]


Quote:
If you assume non-dualism....stop.
Ditto, above.
Quote:
But the non-dualism pre-assumption glosses over a lot of structure. It is accurate but not precise.
For you to suggest that the non-dualism assumption is accurate…leaves me cold. You are begging the question here.


Accuracy and Precision
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision

Pre-assuming nondualism is accurate.
But it is not precise.
It is vacuous.
This was the distinction that I had been trying to impress upon igm with the
pre-dualism and trans-dualism discussion.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:31 pm
@fresco,
Frank's "guessing" is set in stone forever, and nobody will change his mind. No amount of logic will pursuade him to change his idea about "guessing."

We've all been through that "merry-go-round" with Frank - for many years.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Let the man guess about guessing all he wants, I like Frank for his stubbornness no matter what...Coherence in behavior is perhaps my favorite trait of character. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:34 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5261656)
No Frank, you don't do it "freely" !
You have a vested interest in "ignoring" the plethora of arguments against "naive realism" because they would destroy your simplistic view of "guessing" on which you have staked your intellectual integrity.


I have as many arguments against "naive realism" as you, Fresco...but you are so wedded to your version of what the REALITY is to notice that.

You are a guesser...who presents his guesses as facts.

I do acknowledge my ignorance...more than most here in A2K...and I do it freely.

Not sure why that bothers you, but I can certainly guess that it has something to do with your own unwillingness to acknowledge ignorance in yourself.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:37 pm
Gonna go sit in front of the wood burning stove and watch TV with Nancy for a while.

See you guys later...or more likely, tomorrow.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:39 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Enjoy yourself Frank Very Happy
We enjoy you too!
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 02:56 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Detention for Apisa

Discuss with references to the relevant literature:
The word "fact" comes from the Latin facere to "construct ". Constructions are either contextually functional or not and such functionality is context specific and may be temporary.. A "guess" is a tentative construction whose functionality is in the process of being assessed. The arbiter of functionality (aka facticity) is ultimately social agreement between those for whom specific contexts have significance.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 03:40 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You are a guesser...who presents his guesses as facts.



She can't help it, the girl can't help it
She can't help it, the girl can't help it


Little Richard
0 Replies
 
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 04:01 pm
@fresco,
I never get detention Razz
Guess the teacher likes me better. Wink
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 04:04 pm
@MattDavis,
Never got detention? LOL A teacher hit my wrist with a ruler....
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 04:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Maybe you should learn to respect your elders!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 04:07 pm
@MattDavis,
Quote:
I never get detention Razz
Guess the teacher likes me better. Wink


You might want to at least try it once before you come to a conclusion about it. I never had it but what could be so bad about burning a tater and zoning out in detention? I have not smoked weed in 25 years but I cant wait for retirement, Drunk not that I would do it everyday. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 04:09 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Never got detention? LOL A teacher hit my wrist with a ruler....


I am surprised that she did not take her shoe off and beat some fn sense into you. Just kidding I could not help myself. Drunk
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Feb, 2013 04:51 pm
@MattDavis,
I'm an "elder" of 77 years old. I'm talking about when I was in grade school, over six decades ago! LOL
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2013 07:47 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Re: fresco (Post 5261666)
Frank's "guessing" is set in stone forever, and nobody will change his mind. No amount of logic will pursuade him to change his idea about "guessing."

We've all been through that "merry-go-round" with Frank - for many years.


I do not know the nature of REALITY.

So, ci...let me hear some "logic" that will persudade me that I ought change my "ideas" about that.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2013 07:51 am
@MattDavis,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5261687)
Enjoy yourself Frank
We enjoy you too!


Good.

Nice night...fire was a delight. We got to watch Skyfall...which turned out to be a very enjoyable movie. I can understand why some people consider it the best Bond movie yet.

Anyway, I do not know the true nature of REALITY. I do not know what (if anything) must be included; what (if anything) must be excluded; what has to be; or what simply cannot be.

Do you?
 

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