Young Earth Creationist needs advice

You need to develop an awareness of god that is a result of your own understanding, rather than buying into the mythology of the Bible or any other "holy" book. Keep in mind that none of the great scientific minds of the past couple of centuries were atheists. Darwin never suggested that there is no "god." Einstein was a believer. It's all a matter of how you see god in your own life. As for me, I never feel so alienated from god as I do in a church. That's not where my god lives; that's just a superstitious attempt to imprison god in an edifice made by man. God is everywhere, including inside you. Try to see it that way; stop thinking of god in anthropomorphic terms as some kind of super human.

I sincerely hope you can work out your misgivings. Denying the undoubtable and undeniable fact of evolution in favor of some superstitious mumbo-jumbo that is based on the fuzzy and limited understanding of a group of herdsmen of several thousand years ago is self-defeating.

If you have a LOT of time on your hands, you might want to read through the couple thousand pages of some of the evolution forums here on a2k.

The Catholic Church came to terms with evolution decades ago. They posit a kind of guided evolution, a la Teilhard deChardin, with a god giving little nudges here and there to finally come up with us, as the pinnacle (though we ain't doin' a good job for the planet, are we, up here at the top). I knew a Catholic priest stationed in the Boston area, and he gave me a second copy he had that an evolutionary biologist parishioner had given him, of an australopithecus elbow joint (pretty modern-looking, actually). He was quite comfortable with evolution and his faith.

Good on you, for using your reason. Evolution is a purely natural process. It proceeds independent of any god and doesn't need one to work. So moral stances, loving or not, is not directly applicable. Everything has to eat something to survive. That's just the way it is. We eat just about anything (and Chinese cuisine does feature just about anything organic) to survive, and there are all kinds of things that eat us in their turn, some when we're dead, some when we're still alive (mosquitoes and flu viruses come to mind). everything living makes possible something else's place in the sun. It's not exactly loving, but it's kind of beautiful how everything is interconnected.

I don't understand what evolution has to do with whether there is a loving God or not. Isn't it just as easy to love a product of evolution as it is to love a pile of mud?

Animals and people are dying every day. Nature is full of animals killing each other and suffering from horrible diseases. The cruelty of nature is part of life whether you accept evolution or not.

Am I missing something?

I agree. The "cruelty" of nature is separate from evolution.

The difference is this: Young earth Creationism says God created us a few thousand years ago. There is death and suffering because we messed things up and are getting exactly what we asked for. God loves us BUT....

Evolutionary Biology says we had very little say in how we got to where we are today and the long process was simply a natural one. All the death, disease, and pain is now simply part of a natural, completely indifferent process...

I was a Creationist in my youth and then changed to believing in Intelligent design (with God directed evolution) for a while after that. I don't remember having this issue with believing in a loving God when I made this change.

A Man Said to the Universe
BY STEPHEN CRANE
A man said to the universe:
“Sir, I exist!"
“However,” replied the universe,
“The fact has not created in me
“A sense of obligation.”

I am bemused that this is a problem for you. You are dismayed that death and suffering are a part of the natural world, but not dismayed that an allegedly loving god would allow death and suffering? You have an odd way of looking at things.

If you still want to believe in a "loving God" in light of the biological realities you now recognize, you could fall back on the old "god works in mysterious ways" idea and grant your vision of God the freedom to express "love" in whatever manner it (God) thinks is most appropriate. That way you don't have to make sense out of any natural condition that you believe God is responsible for, you just have to accept them in some larger unknowable way.

The "God works in mysterious ways" is a good default mechanism for assigning whatever values to God that you want, while still recognizing the realities of the Natural world. It relieves you from the work and responsibility of trying to make "sense" out of God's choices.

There were a lot of things you could have read to relieve the boredom. Why did you decide to read about Evolution? It sounds like the seeds of doubt over Creationism must have been planted in you somehow before. Was there someone or some event in your past which planted those seeds?

"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only assist him to find it himself"--Galileo

Death and suffering was initially what kindled my skepticism about Young Earth Creationism. Research about evolution came along later. Basically the straw that broke the camels back.

interesting, that youve begun your journey from such concepts.Does the Bible present a much different message for you now?

I've never believed in a god, loving or otherwise even though I was brought up in a Evangelical home. I don't believe in god because it doesn't sound real to me. But I don't know why a knowledge of evolutionary theory and a rational agreement with it's possibilities prevents one from believing in a loving god. What would we do if there were no death and suffering? What kind of stories would we tell or devise? What would provide the necessary conflict that would drive the story? What purpose would we have? What kind of thread would be interesting on a2k? Thank goodness for suffering, danger and death, love and life. What would we do without them?

Fundamentalist Evangelical Christians are fixed in their beliefs in a totally factual Bible, thats why Fundamentalists have problems with evolution and an "Old Earth". Most religions (except fundamentalist Jews and Muslims ) have accomodated themselves with a belief that their Bibles are poetry and, as Lewis Black says"Total Bullshit, because Jews (my people), INVENTED BULLSHIT"

This is actually very good, it means you can reason beyond what you were indoctrinated into thinking. You should try to get an objective viewpoint, try to think in the third person. You can consider evolution or creationism. One is based on what you can observe, based on what we have found and on what the best logical thinkers of the world in general have concluded, but is not comforting. The other is based on a book written thousands of years ago by goats herders, has nearly no logical proof (mind you, I said nearly, not absolutely), but offers immense comfort in death and the universe. You can choose to be logical, someone who looks at the world as it is, or illogical, only accepting things that make you feel good, and only believing what gives you comfort. If I just start spouting facts, then you'll dismiss me. So I encourage you, please read more about science and evolution, and try to think beyond what you were told. Try to comprehend all that you're reading on science and evolution despite your belief, not dismissing and using "God" as your answer.

Best wishes.