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Socialists Oust Spain's Ruling Party

 
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 03:21 pm
ebrown_p

Regarding your Post: 602582,

Quote:
"It is wrong to compare Spain's withdrawal from Iraq with Appeasment before WWII. The situation before WWII is completely different from the mess we are in today."
Quote:
"Every military adventure we take into Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan means more people who lose family members and livelihoods. Purposely or not, we are giving more and more people reasons to hate us."


Some might argue if we had done this earlier 9/11 would still be only a distant dream of a largely defunct Al Qeada. These terrorists already hated us. 9/11 merely demonstrated how serious they were about destroying us.

Quote:
"America's intentions don't matter. We are playing a losing game. We are making ourselves and our allies vulnerable"


Yes they do and, despite America's detractor's efforts at creating the straw man of imperialism, the U.S. intentions are noble. The game is not lost and we and our allies have always been vulnerable, not because we try to rid the world of these murderers of innocents, but because those same international felons make it their life ambition to destroy us.

Quote:
"Now, if you were the Spanish people, wouldn't you want out? The Spanieard didn't make the decisions that set up this confrontation. It is almost certain the Spanish government had not cozied up with the US, they would not be a target."


This goes to the heart of my example of real "leaders". As mentioned beforehand, the "confrontation" existed previously and was largely the responsibility of the terrorist groups. If such groups did not create such a confrontation how were they to legitimatize themselves? If one must be a big fish, no matter the size of the pond, one needs a pond.

Quote:
"Yes, leaving Iraq is "letting the terrorists win". But so what? Spain needs to look after her own interests. Making yourself a target for such a pricinple is matyrdom."
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2004 03:52 pm
JamesMorrison wrote:
ebrown_p

Quote:
"It is wrong to compare Spain's withdrawal from Iraq with Appeasment before WWII. The situation before WWII is completely different from the mess we are in today."


Oh? How so? Did Neville Chamberlain's efforts directed towards selling the Czechs down the Nazi River work? Was this settlement enough to appease the Austrian corporal? Did this ultimately save lives? Before that in 1936 when Hitler sent just a Battalion of the German Army to probe the Rhineland (a blatant breach of the Treaty of Versailles) and the French, who possessed the largest standing army in the world at the time, did nothing. How did this passive appeasement work towards world peace or, more pointedly, the French way of life in the succeeding years?



I wasn't arguing at all about European history of 60 years ago. I was just pointing out that there aren't very many parallels. German was a military power who was occupying another nation they had just invaded in spite of widespread international opposition. I don't see any parallels.

Quote:

How do the results from appeasement differ whether the force demanding such cowardice stems from Islamic Fundamentalists whose stated goal is to destroy Western Civilization or from Germanic tyrants who similarly publish their goals of world conquest?


They differ quite a bit. In fact it is a stretch to make any comparisons.

The "Germanic tyrants" power came from a national military force backed up an industrial base. The main source of their power was nationalism.

The "Islamic fundamentatlists" power comes from low-level military tactics backed up by support from religious and political ideals. The main source of their power is radical religious and a deep belief that Arabs are getting screwed by the west.

The "tyrants" had a standing army with a visible front and clear lines of support.

The "fundamentalists" are far dispersed and hidden in many nations and small cells.

The tyrants fought a conventional war.

The "fundamentalists" use terror and guerilla tactics.

The tyrants were defeated because we took away their industrial production and overwhelmed their army.

The fundamentalists will only be defeated when we take away their support in the minds of people.
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