Socialists Oust Spain's Ruling Party

Reading some of these posts helps me understand Bush's success with so many American voters.

Every problem has a simple solution. If a solution isn't simple, then it must be wrong. Anyone who argues that some problems are complex is wrong. Or worse--a liberal or a European...

Old European, and this 'fraction' now got another member :wink:

Oh brother.

The Spanish electorate got it right.

The US war on terrorism is just that -- a US war on terrorism. The basic issues involved have nothing to do with the Spanish people. The previous government put Spain in the middle of the US's war by cozying up to the US government.

Now the Spanish people want out. This makes a lot of sense and who can blame them.

It seems like this was an important reason for the Socialist victory. This is a very rational reason.

The new government is promising to fight terrorism in Spain. A good way to do this is to put distance between Spain and the US so-called "war on terrorism".

One suggestion. Pull all U.S. bases out of europe and let the ethnic cleansing begin.

Would be okay for Spain, since it equalizes the number of Spanish troops in Iraq:
total: 1,893
Army: 47
Navy: 1,358
Marines: 191
Air Force: 297
(all figures as for 30.09.03)


However, when have the US been engaged in "Spain's ethnic cleansing"?

And to call terrorisits (that's, how the USA calls ETA as well) attacks "ethnic cleansing" ... ...

Huh?

I believe cjhsa is suggesting that the US "ethnically cleanse" Europe. In other words remove the bases and kill people like Walter.

This is a good indication of how seriously to take cjhsa.

No, I think I get it now...

He is pointing out that when the Europeans took their bases out of America, we commenced a very successful program of ethnic cleansing...

Not that that means anything for today though.

Re: Scrat

No, I don't think you are. If there is a terrorist attack on American soil within days of the election, and it appears to effect the outcome of the election in a way that benefits the terrorists, then that is a bad thing for everyone.

From today's Spanish papers:

Among the 77% of the eligible population who cast their votes, the liberal-leaning El País notes that young voters and those of the centre-left who stayed at home in the 2000 election that saw José María Aznar returned to power came out in force to deliver what the paper describes as a "serious fiasco" for the outgoing prime minister's Popular party (PP).

In an editorial entitled Of Lies, the paper delivers Aznar and his government a bitter rebuke, putting its defeat down largely to "inevitable sense of manipulation and deception the electorate felt" over its reaction to the Madrid bombings.

"But as if that was not serious enough, the worst mistake which accompanies Aznar's farewell is his dogged insistence in converting his particular obsessions and questionable ideas about Spain, the Spanish, and the way in which they are governed into dogma," the paper says, before concluding that it was "the manipulation, the lies, the offensive use of the argument of the war against terror to justify just about any policy, the blatant opportunism and puerile arrogance that caused those in power to lose it yesterday.

Under the banner headline 'Spain castigates the PP and puts its trust in Zapatero', the centre-right El Mundo said that voters had "fiercely chastised the PP for its management of the crisis and had presented [the government] with the overdue bill for the war in Iraq."

"Aznar signed the invoice [at pre-war summit with Bush and Blair] in the Azores, and [his successor] Rajoy is paying it now," the paper noted in an analysis similar if less fiercely critical than that of El País.

In an editorial entitled "Three days that changed Spain," the right-leaning ABC noted that "in the end, the debate over manifestos, the merits of the personalities involved, the state of the parties, was all substituted by a vote which let off steam over the March 11 attacks and castigated the government."

"Nevertheless, the results are unquestionable," the paper concluded.

From various sources: Guardian, FAZ-online, Spiegel-online, BBC.

Now, now.... Some of us know nothing about Spanish politics but aren't calling names. :wink:

Actually, it was you I thought of, Scrat, when I made that comment...

I took you to mean calling other A2Kers names, but I see your point now. Tell you what, I'll refrain from calling politicians names when the rest of you do likewise.

BM

It is wrong to compare Spain's withdrawral from Iraq with Appeasment before WWII. The situation before WWII is completely different from the mess we are in today.

The US so-called "war on terror" is completely insane. We are doing exactly what the terrorists want us to do and we are playing to their strength. Their main weapons are hatred and desparation the very things our policies are graciously providing.

Every military adventure we take into Iraq, Pakistan and Afganistan means more people who lose family members and livelihoods. Purposely or not, we are giving more and more people reasons to hate us. The terrorists don't really care about how many of them we kill because they know if they can keep us on the offensive there will be 2 or 3 to take their place.

America's intentions don't matter. We are playing a losing game. We are making ourselves and our allies vulnerable.

Now, if you were the Spanish people, wouldn't you want out? The Spanieard didn't make the decisions that set up this confrontation. It is almost certain the Spanish government had not cozied up with the US, they would not be a target.

So why are you asking Spain to be a target? For principle?

Yes, leaving Iraq is "letting the terrorists win". But so what? Spain needs to look after her own interests. Making yourself a target for such a pricinple is matyrdom.

The US has gotten itself into a no win situation. Spain has no responsibility to keep the terrorists from winning. Let the US clean up its own messes. Spain is right to bow out.

Nonsense. What we are doing is raising the opportunity cost of terrorism until it becomes too expensive for most people to choose it. Liberal hand-wringers in this country and abroad are the ones playing into the hands of terrorists. Terrorists want to hear Democrats whine that America needs to change our evil ways in order to stop people from hating us; as if we are responsible for what others choose to do because they dislike our policies. Terrorists will use the Spanish elections as evidence that their tactics WORK.