9
   

What is the difference between thought and feeling?

 
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jan, 2013 10:11 am
@igm,
Very good statement, Igm. It is a critical point, that virtually all thought is infused to some extent by feeling and virtually all feeling with thought.

We might consider the distinction between "feeling" and "emotion" as well. Feelings are ubiquitous and include body sensations, i.e, the burning in one's nose when angry or butterflies in the stomach when frightened. Emotions seem to be more culturally configured and identifiable. We've got words for emotions but can't easily describe our more subtle feelings. Even bad actors can display emotions (e.g., fear, desire, anger, sadness, envy, etc.), but only good ones can show feelings--for example by means of body posture or small facial muscles.
And it is "feeling" more often than "emotion" that, as PQ puts it, "color our thoughts."
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 06:26 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

We might consider the distinction between "feeling" and "emotion" as well.

I agree, a distiction should be made between 'feeling' and 'emotion' if they are to be examined closely. But again all three: thoughts, feelings and emotions seem to come together into a conscious perception of an event or thing. What do you think?

JLNobody wrote:

Feelings are ubiquitous and include body sensations...

I'm wondering if bodily sensations could also be defined as separate from feelings i.e. sensations as the tactile sense but feelings as more ‘mind based’, so to speak?
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 10:18 am
@igm,
I wonder when the list of kinds of experiences will end. We might add immediate, unconditioned sensations, i.e., aesthetic intuitions. And what about those fuzzy perceptions and conceptualizations that are below awareness?
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 11:59 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

I wonder when the list of kinds of experiences will end...

There is I’m sure a long list that can be made…
Is there any benefit to this differentiation then? And if so at what point should we stop differentiating in order to experience that benefit? You meditate, can you see any benefit to merely being aware of the process itself?
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 12:38 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
Quote:
Cartisian dichotomy paradigm is false
As a form of dualism I'd lean toward agreement. However the statement is itself a form of dualism, it does violate the general principle that nothing is entirely anything while everything is partly something else

http://natureinthecity.org/urbanbiodiversity.php

Quote:
in which ways can we draw it: scientifically, philosophically, conceptually?
At danger of oversimplification and risk of mirroring something already asserted above, feeling is identified by a positive or negative aspect

Quote:
Is such a distinction useful?
Surely Pent you might gainfully reword that q
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jan, 2013 10:41 pm
@igm,
I assume that one gains different things when we examine experience scientifically, philosophically, and spiritually. In meditation one examines the living experience in the most innocent way possible, without categorization, and evaluataive thought. It's one easy aesthetic examination of, as you call it, "the process itself" and on its terms rather than in terms of prefigured cognitive aspirations. It is said that the benefit is liberation from our condition of hardening of the categories. More seriously, the meditator sees, because of a softening of the habit of judgement and categorization the unity of "himself" and all "objects" of his experience, a dropping away from the subject-object, dualism imposed on perception. That is an important aspect of what Buddhism means by Enligtenment.
0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2013 05:30 am
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Quote:
I mean, do we ever feel without context?
Sure, Pent, haven't you ever suddenly and for no apparent reason just felt good


To be honest, I may have, but I don't actually recall doing so at all.

Basically my point is (and serves as a reply to other replies also) how 'quickly' does this dialectic between thought and feeling occur. I think it might be that I tend to perpetually narrate things in my head that I feel the distinction hard to draw. I mean, I'll get up early and feel awful, but I'll simultaneously be saying to myself '****, ****, this is horrible; I feel horrible' etc.
igm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2013 07:13 am
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:

...how 'quickly' does this dialectic between thought and feeling occur. I think it might be that I tend to perpetually narrate things in my head that I feel the distinction hard to draw. I mean, I'll get up early and feel awful, but I'll simultaneously be saying to myself 'f***, f***, this is horrible; I feel horrible' etc.

I believe there is a difference between the experience of your 'true nature' which is an 'unconditioned feeling' and the experience you'd have if you ignore this, which is horrible feelings etc... that are based on 'conditioned' actions of body, speech and mind that have happened in the past.

For some they simultaneously experience the 'unconditioned' which is naturally pleasant (at the very least) in all circumstances whilst at the same time experiencing the results of their past actions i.e. karma. So they rest in the ‘unconditioned’ and are left experientially and progressively unaffected by their ‘conditioned’ experience. This route to having this ability is doing the meditations that can bring this about. It can take many years but for some it is much quicker . Also it is not an 'all or nothing' deal it does have benefits even at the very beginning.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2013 01:38 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
Quote:
I feel the distinction hard to draw. I mean, I'll get up early and feel awful,
Interesting Pent you should so report. Indeed when I reported the same experience to my GP he responded, "I've never heard of such a thing," suggesting that you and I are two of the very few feeling lousy upon arising

Quote:
…simultaneously…...this is horrible; I feel horrible' etc.
Yes, thoughts acknowledging the feeling

After a cup of coffee however, I for one feel just fine
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2013 02:13 pm
@dalehileman,
Dale and Pent, I recommend you buy some good mattresses.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2013 02:36 pm
@JLNobody,
Quote:
good mattresses.
Honestly JL, so it would seem

OT but I'm in fact so curious as to initiate a thread

http://able2know.org/topic/205870-1
0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2013 11:21 am
Well the reason I normally feel lousy in the morning is that I lack the capacity to go to bed before two in the morning even if I have to be up at eight. So is my own fault really.
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2013 12:12 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

The Pentacle Queen wrote:

...how 'quickly' does this dialectic between thought and feeling occur. I think it might be that I tend to perpetually narrate things in my head that I feel the distinction hard to draw. I mean, I'll get up early and feel awful, but I'll simultaneously be saying to myself 'f***, f***, this is horrible; I feel horrible' etc.

I believe there is a difference between the experience of your 'true nature' which is an 'unconditioned feeling' and the experience you'd have if you ignore this, which is horrible feelings etc... that are based on 'conditioned' actions of body, speech and mind that have happened in the past.

For some they simultaneously experience the 'unconditioned' which is naturally pleasant (at the very least) in all circumstances whilst at the same time experiencing the results of their past actions i.e. karma. So they rest in the ‘unconditioned’ and are left experientially and progressively unaffected by their ‘conditioned’ experience. This route to having this ability is doing the meditations that can bring this about. It can take many years but for some it is much quicker . Also it is not an 'all or nothing' deal it does have benefits even at the very beginning.


Interesting. I forgot about meditation. I'll have to have a think about this and get back to you.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2013 12:21 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
PQ somebody here might give us a clue

http://able2know.org/topic/205973-1
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2013 10:03 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
That makes sense. Maybe if you spend yourself in the day you'll be more willing to go to sleep earlier. But then it is nice to not want to quit your active day.
How about a small glass of orange juice, black coffee (and meditation) to start the day?
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2013 11:55 am
@JLNobody,
Especially coffee though needn't be black

As for restlessness, melatonin pill, "natural," minimal sideffects

Also to dispel troubling thought try Mentalist Patrick Jane's suggestion, "One" upon inhale, "Two" with exhale
0 Replies
 
jessicatnr
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Jan, 2013 03:14 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
"Our two minds .... One is an act of the emotional
mind, the other of the rational mind. In a very
real sense we have two minds, one that thinks and
one that feels" (Daniel Goleman, Emotional
Intelligence, Bloomsbury Publishing, London, 1996,
page 8). The rational mind is also called the
faculty of logic and reason.

Feeling is done by the emotional mind and thinking
is done by the rational mind.

The Upanishads say that these two are opposite in
nature. Emotions appear irrational. Rationality
seems to lack emotions. Modern psychologist also
have observed it, but they are not very sure about
it:

"At the same time, reason sometimes clearly seems
to come into conflict with some desires (even
while not being in conflict with others) giving us
the impression that reason is separate from
emotion".
0 Replies
 
imans
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 01:37 pm
logics exist only bc existence is true, then those kind of perspectives are false
and serve creations powers life over existence rights

like sayin that thinkin has a mind on its own is complete invention from what never even think alone

for any thinking, know that it is all alone the existin entity, then its only way of gettin credit in being conscious thinking, is to b its own will so never a mind since very subjective thing end and tryin to keep actin over reality in hope of getting anything else as a possession to assimilate to one self thinkin ways to keep it possessed still, instead of himself to lie and mean thinkin really, those strateges cant have minds one must then keep presently inventin everything as being the answer still will as the exclusive point existing there

or sayin that feelin has a mind is total nonsense even more

who feels anything knows mostly that it is about smthg else present touchin it, so there cant b but unknown entities
that is why here the way is to move realisin a relation with else known existence to avoid becomin crazy moron through feelings possessions of else powers

mind by definition mean free existence proof, what is bc of else reactions to is by definition never free and what is the only thing existing cant by definition mean else

so mind is true only in truth conceptions out of existence facts, where meanin oneself is never but the more present representant of present reference to what relatively might b really existin, so from itself use only as the only way possible to mean absolute being real





0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2013 01:28 pm
It seems to me we spend much of our time checking how we feel then feeling dissatisfied with the way we feel, followed by thinking about how to correct that state-of-affairs. We then act based on those thoughts and check again… only to feel dissatisfied once more and so the cycle continues... we are basically most of the time... dissatisfied… it's our default setting... it’s second nature to us.. but it's not a happy state of mind. Will these feelings always remain if thoughts are used to try to dispel them?
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2013 01:39 pm
@igm,
Quote:
Will these feelings always remain if thoughts are used to try to dispel them?
Not necessarily though one might need external help
 

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