H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2013 07:22 am
@tenderfoot,
On your lips
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2013 07:47 am

50 rounds of 7.62mm NATO

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac160/The_H2O_MAN/EBR_Ashley_12-15-12009_zps470010c5.jpg
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2013 07:50 am
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac160/The_H2O_MAN/12-20-12004_zps9e27f372.jpg
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2013 07:59 am

America 'd be a safer place if gunnery replaced baseball.





David
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 08:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
... but you should keep in mind that most guns in Switzerland are government owned: more than 260,000 in use by active soldiers, 1,600,000 by reservists. (Source: Statistical Office of the Swiss Federation)


Most??? That's unlikely.

There may be a lot of military weapons in Swiss households, but there are also a lot of private weapons.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 08:13 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:
Is it true that the Swiss regulate the ammunition?


You usually have to pass a background check and sign your name leaving a record of your purchase, but it isn't too onerous.

One exception is firing ranges, which sell ammo to people without such requirements (the general expectation is that this ammo will be used on-site as soon as it is bought, and not taken off the range though).
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 08:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The related law is very similar to any weapon law in any other European country: you can buy ammunition for those weapons you've got a licence for.


I still don't see that in the law. It looks like a mere requirement for a background check before ammo is bought.

But, getting a license for any particular caliber is easy enough. The only real barrier is a background check.

Any Swiss citizen who can pass a background check can get a lever/pump/semi-auto shotgun or rifle in whatever caliber they please.

(Yes, I know they have to state the "reason" they are getting the gun, but that is no barrier. Just takes a second or two to write the words "self defense".)

And double-barreled shotguns and bolt-action rifles can even be had without a background check.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 10:24 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

(Yes, I know they have to state the "reason" they are getting the gun, but that is no barrier. Just takes a second or two to write the words "self defense".)
I've already tried it, but I'll try it again: we here in Europe have a different understanding of self defense.
To quote from Swiss Criminal Code:
Quote:
Artikel 15
Rechtfertigende Notwehr
Wird jemand ohne Recht angegriffen oder unmittelbar mit einem Angriff bedroht, so ist der Angegriffene und jeder andere berechtigt, den Angriff in einer den Umständen angemessenen Weise abzuwehren.


Since you seemed to have difficulties to understand the German text before, I'll paste/copy that in the other Swiss languages as well:
Quote:
Légitime défense
Quiconque, de manière contraire au droit, est attaqué ou menacé d’une attaque imminente a le droit de repousser l’attaque par des moyens proportionnés aux circonstances; le même droit appartient aux tiers.

Quote:
Legittima difesa esimente
Ognuno ha il diritto di respingere in modo adeguato alle circostanze un’aggressione ingiusta o la minaccia ingiusta di un’aggressione imminente fatta a sé o ad altri.

Unfortunately, I don't have the official text in Rumantsch.

Article 16 then says (similar as other European Criminal Codes) when you get punished less.

All that is taught in the first semester at law faculties, in Switzerland, Austria, Germany ...
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 12:29 pm
One of my favorites

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac160/The_H2O_MAN/Come-what-may_zps6e9cfeac.jpg
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 04:11 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I've already tried it, but I'll try it again: we here in Europe have a different understanding of self defense.
To quote from Swiss Criminal Code:
Quote:
Artikel 15
Rechtfertigende Notwehr
Wird jemand ohne Recht angegriffen oder unmittelbar mit einem Angriff bedroht, so ist der Angegriffene und jeder andere berechtigt, den Angriff in einer den Umständen angemessenen Weise abzuwehren.


Since you seemed to have difficulties to understand the German text before, I'll paste/copy that in the other Swiss languages as well:
Quote:
Légitime défense
Quiconque, de manière contraire au droit, est attaqué ou menacé d’une attaque imminente a le droit de repousser l’attaque par des moyens proportionnés aux circonstances; le même droit appartient aux tiers.

Quote:
Legittima difesa esimente
Ognuno ha il diritto di respingere in modo adeguato alle circostanze un’aggressione ingiusta o la minaccia ingiusta di un’aggressione imminente fatta a sé o ad altri.

Unfortunately, I don't have the official text in Rumantsch.

Article 16 then says (similar as other European Criminal Codes) when you get punished less.

All that is taught in the first semester at law faculties, in Switzerland, Austria, Germany ...


That's not a different understanding. That's the traditional understanding of self defense.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 04:13 pm
@oralloy,
But officer, you can't use the legal definition which is actually written into the law. You have to use my traditional understanding.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 06:11 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
But officer, you can't use the legal definition which is actually written into the law. You have to use my traditional understanding.


Are you contending that those definitions at all differ from self defense as it is traditionally understood?

If so, how do they differ?

If not, what in the world are you talking about?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 11:31 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
That's not a different understanding. That's the traditional understanding of self defense.
Good! So you understand, why someone gets imprisoned in Switzerland, Germany, Austria .... when she(he shoots e.g. a burglar.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2013 12:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
oralloy wrote:
That's not a different understanding. That's the traditional understanding of self defense.


Good! So you understand, why someone gets imprisoned in Switzerland, Germany, Austria .... when she(he shoots e.g. a burglar.


Depends on the circumstances.

If they shot a fleeing burglar in the back (or some other situation where it is clear that there was no direct threat of physical harm from the burglar), yes I understand.

But if the burglar, upon finding that people were home, decided to branch out into rape and/or murder, I would think it highly questionable if anyone were prosecuted for shooting to prevent a direct attack on them or their family.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2013 01:51 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
But if the burglar, upon finding that people were home, decided to branch out into rape and/or murder, I would think it highly questionable if anyone were prosecuted for shooting to prevent a direct attack on them or their family.
Yes. That's what the law says. (NB: I used the term 'burglar'. I didn't mean '[armed] robbery', '[attemted] rape' or '[attempted] murder'.)
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2013 07:26 am
This one was just too heavy... it's a nice concept that needs refinement.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/Rogue-drum.jpg
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:07 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/25022_567603183256874_622638572_n.jpg
I love that M-14.
How many rounds in that magazine ?
0 Replies
 
 

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