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Your take on Zen

 
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2016 12:12 pm
@Qaf,
Qaf wrote:

@ Krumple

For me, the dilemma is what is the nature of evil. If extant evil persist then I see it as being caused by the weight of karmic debt. If I don't believe in karma I say my creator God wants me to understand the nature of this evil and that I may find solace by following God's edicts as layed down by a revealed text. Now we come to the question, the important question of how does Zen tackle evil, of man upon man, of nation upon nation. The answer is you cannot think it away, you can only aspire towards the Great Emptiness that removes suffering and brings you close to the suchness of things, this suchness is the creation of God.



Well first of all "evil" is just duality of causation. It only arises within samsara. There is no real issue with it. Evil is the aspects of mind that hinder progress or cause additional unnecessary suffering on oneself or others. Anything can be considered evil but this is not it's true nature.
0 Replies
 
Qaf
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2016 01:57 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote :
Quote:
Why would you post a quote from an inferrior source. The Quran hasnt given rise to the enlightened mind.


What do you define as an "enlightened mind" ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ujqdZhg4QU Wink
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Oct, 2016 06:08 pm
@Qaf,
Qaf wrote:

Krumple wrote :
Quote:
Why would you post a quote from an inferrior source. The Quran hasnt given rise to the enlightened mind.


What do you define as an "enlightened mind" ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ujqdZhg4QU Wink


The mountains are the enlightened mind. But they werent created by a god for its glory or rememberance.
Qaf
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 02:32 am
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:
Quote:

The mountains are the enlightened mind. But they werent created by a god for its glory or rememberance.


They were created for contemplation and rememberance of the creator God, not for themselves. This passage is a prable about humility and lack of ego, similar to the zen koan about the cup.

A Cup of Tea

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor\'s cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. \"It is overfull. No more will go in!\"

\"Like this cup,\" Nan-in said, \"you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?\"
0 Replies
 
Qaf
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 02:38 am
@Krumple,

I have no idea by what you mean when you say \"The mountains are enlightened\" I think you being deliberately oblique/hedging by avoiding saying what is an enlightened mind. If you would like to elucidate we can take this further or else I beg leave of this conversation.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Oct, 2016 01:10 pm
@Qaf,
Qaf wrote:


I have no idea by what you mean when you say \"The mountains are enlightened\" I think you being deliberately oblique/hedging by avoiding saying what is an enlightened mind. If you would like to elucidate we can take this further or else I beg leave of this conversation.


There is no creator. That is the point in the statement.
Qaf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 03:57 am
@Krumple,
Actually the point right here is that you mentioned "the enlightened mind" and I have yet to hear what that means.
0 Replies
 
Qaf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Oct, 2016 05:52 am
@Krumple,
Well as you have chosen not to qualify your own statement, which you consider as fact, Let me share what I know as what has been percieved historically as an enlightened mind. First we had the Greeks as the epitome of Western Classical thought, with Aristotle leading his discursive either or method as the tool for interpreting reality, somehere along the line came Descartes with the mind body divide, to be overthrown by spinoza. Most of this placed the human ego as the center from which the world can be defined and interpreted.

Now, and this is important for the ignorant, apart from the Socratic dialactetic and from a time preceeding it, rose Advaita, with the text the Srimad Bhagwata, the book of Divine Love (of Lord Krishna) as the foremost philosophical text on Non Dualism, there was no contradiction in associating non dualist thought with divinity, for more than anything it removed the ego as the primary source of interpretation of the world . A cosmological constant was seen as the divine inspiration for samadhi. As with Zen(which holds the simplicity of nature as Truth) Advaita, non dualism asks for the removal of the "me" and holds God as truth, and that is similar for the Qur'an. This is a place of contemplation where there is no ego, no self, and in that monotheistic texts have their place in a discussion of tattagatha. Suchness is seen as being "near God", this is that.

Please note I will only engage in converstaions with fellow philosophers who are respectful of all bodies of thought and writing, whether they be a revealed text or a zen koan. By being disrespectful, you not only show your own ignorance, especially when talking of zen and mahayana buddhism which is a religion of compassion, you also subveret the very textx you claim to uphold.
Thank You
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Oct, 2016 05:04 am
Lets "zen" our take on Zen shall we... to me it means elegance in simplicity, energy efficiency, conservation of mass, and last but not least symmetry.
0 Replies
 
 

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