The brief appearance of Islamic members.

@Fatihah,

Fatihah wrote:

Still ducking and dodging I see. Your own logic supports the fact that one has to prove that islam when making the claim. So your redundancy continues to fail.

Make that into coherent English, and i might be able to answer it. As it stands now, it is meaningless.

Basically, all you do is sneer at criticism, and make false claims about what people have said. You employ no logic.

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@Setanta,

In other words, you still have no logical argument, thus exposing yourself as usual. Thanks for the clarification.

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Locial argument for what? I have made no claims about Islam. Once again you're attempting to shift the burden of proof. If anyone here is devoid of logic, it's you.

So do you just go around to various web sites, slandering so-called "infidels?" Is that how you get your jollies? You're pretty pathetic.

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@Fatihah,

Only a fool would argue that selective passages from their holy book negates or mitigates the blatant first hand evidence of how some Muslims actually behave especially towards each other.

Wake up ! The rest of the world has moved on from the tolerance of medieval chauvinist theocracy. Other religions have shown signs of adaptation. Why not yours ?

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@Setanta,

Exactly. That's the whole point. You've made no claims. Thus acknowledging that you've done nothing thus far but make pointless ramblings. This is a debate site. so either debate, or keep quiet. Only deluded people go on debate site and make no claims.

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@fresco,

And we still see you fail to quote anything from the Qur'an or sunnah to back your claims. Your weak propaganda isn't working. Debunked as usual.

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@Fatihah,

Your rhetorical skills are pathetic. I've repeatedly pointed out that you have a burden of proof for your superstitious claims, which you have not met. All you can do is sneer and insult. Yes, this is a debate site. I've pointed out that you have the burden of proof, and that you have not met it. Only a deluded, wacko Muslim would think he had done any debating here based on your performance. Support your idiotic superstition, or shut the f*ck up.

1 Reply

This was my point, that you have avoided since i made ït.

Setanta wrote:

People who make claims have the burden of proof, no one is obliged to disprove them. People who make extraordinary claims have an extraordinary burden of proof. Finally, people who make any claim which involves the supernatural have the highest standard of proof. No one has to disprove the story you're peddling. You have to prove it or else accept that people are justified in dismissing what you say.

You responded with this:

Fatihah wrote:

People making claims do have the burden of proof. Which is why the burden to prove that islam is false is not my burden since it is not my claim.

As no one in this thread has claimed that Islam is false, you just peddled a straw man rather than meet your burden of proof. I pointed this out to you.

Setanta wrote:

Your claim is that Islam is true. That's your burden of proof, and you have not met it. For me to say "I don't believe that" is not at all the same as saying i know it to be untrue.

You have a burden of proof which you have not met, and now you're attempting to use a feeble and false logic to weasel out of your burden.

You responded with this:

Fatihah wrote:

And it was claimed that islam is false, thus the burden of proof is on the person making that claim. As for my claim, my claim was never challenged to be proven, nor did I set out to prove it, so your point is pointles as usual. You are simply wiggling out the fact you you yourself can't prove that islam is false either.

No one in this thread has claimed that Islam is false. I have not claimed that Islam is false. You were just weaseling, once again. You haven't been debating, you've been indulging in a schoolyard playground exercise of "ny-ah ny-ah.

1 Reply

@Fatihah,

This thread is about the failure of Muslims to engage in meaningful debate which is the norm for democratic systems, NOT the convoluted examination of medieval documents. You have demonstrated clearly, both on this thread and elsewhere that you are incapable of such debate. Indeed you are a good example of why Muslims seem to be unable to handle democracy, despite their eagerness to reap the economic benefits of democratic countries by re-locating there. You make supercilious noises about your ideas of "morality" and at the same time can do nothing about the inhumanity of your co-religionists.

To examine "truth" requires courage and intelligence, not dogma or adolescent martyrdom, and unfortunately we still await a Muslim who understands that point.

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@Setanta,

To the contrary, you've repeatedly ducked and dodged any task to debate for fear of being exposed of the fact that you can't, and your deluded and faulty logic will be exposed. Back in the corner you go. Debunked as usual.

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@Fatihah,

You aren't debating. You set up straw men and knock them down. You're a sad case. I won't waste any more time on you.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

No one claimed that islam was true either. What I clearly stated was in direct response to the request of what the term "true messsage of islam" means, not that islam is true, in which I did back up my claim and stated what the true message of islam means.

Your inability to comprehend simple basic English is not my fault. Debunked as usual.Stop embarrasing yourself and quit while you are behind. Deluded non-muslim.

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@Setanta,

You've been a waste of time since you posted. Do everyone a favor and just keep quiet.

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@fresco,

if you want to differentiate between one who seeks to promote islam, and one who merely practises...a muslim practices, an islamist promotes. sadly the term islamist has been misappropriated by the western authorities to mean muslim terrorist. there are peaceful islamists out there too.

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@Berty McJock,

Peaceful ?..maybe.
Capable of rational debate, or able to control their extremists .....where ?

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@fresco,

riiiight, ok i gotcha. you just don't like muslims.

plenty of muslims are capable of rational debate, you just choose to ignore them. you might find this site opens your eyes...

http://www.muslimsdebate.com/blogs/

extremists will never be controlled by those who are not with them. did the christians stop anders breivik? did they stop sandy hook? did they stop the IRA?

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Muslim may be capable of debate, and in fact, i'm sure of it. However, we don't see them here. There may be Muslims here who debate and engage in the more light-hearted threads as well, but we don't know they're Muslims. However, the ones who come here announcing that they are Muslims are almost all irrational, and even the rational ones who show up display few to no reasonable debating skills. Mere contradiction is not debate; setting up straw men to knock down is not debate.

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@Setanta,

fair point, but it's not just muslisms debating islam that can be irrational. i've seen some pretty stupid comments on here from people who (i'm guessing from their names/handles) are not muslim, on all sorts of topics.
sometimes when we are passionate about things, and try to debate them, we can let emotion take over, start rambling, and stop making sense. this happens to us all, just read some of my posts for proof lol.
i also think matters of faith quickly descend into he said/she said style mudslinging, as the faithful are true to their faith in the face of a lack of hard evidence, and non-believers cannot understand absolute faith without any evidence. this will always lead to arguements as each is convinced they are right.

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@Berty McJock,

Quote:

riiiight, ok i gotcha. you just don't like muslims.

No. I consider ANY theist who lays claim to "The Truth" to be irrational. However it also happens to be the case that currently the particular brand of irrationality which condones violent "martyrdom" is almost exclusively attributable to the label "Islam", which unlike other theisms stems from the promise of certain "next life rewards" thereby devaluing "this life". (Your argument about the IRA etc is of course irrelevant because the perpetrators are neither religious martyrs nor acting in the name of "Jesus").

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@Berty McJock,

So there are other idiots, i've not denied that. We get Christian whack jobs, and atheist whack jobs all the time. The salient point is that all of the whack job posters identify their religion, or lack of it, or their polemic. We just don't know about everyone else, because, apparently, it's not sufficiently important for them to mention, or the don't consider it to be anyone else's business. I also think you're categorized "non-believers" unfairly. They don't necessarily think they are right (obviously, the militant whack jobs do), it's just that they're not buying the song and dance from the religion. Many of them are probably like me, i just don't care. But i don't want them to piss down my leg and tell it's raining.

1 Reply

The brief appearance of Islamic members.

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