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Churches Given Anti-Obama Message on Sunday Before Election

 
 
Insomnium
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2012 08:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
W.H.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  6  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 07:48 am
I hope this takes off.

Quote:
CHICAGO, Nov 12 (Reuters) - Political watchdog and secularist groups are asking the U.S. government to investigate whether Catholic bishops and a Christian evangelical group headed by preacher Billy Graham should lose tax breaks for telling followers how to vote in this year's election. More
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 08:23 am
@JPB,
I imagine it will take off something like those guys do who jump off cliffs flapping a pair of wings attached to their arms.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 09:09 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:
Churches Given Anti-Obama Message on Sunday Before Election
I guess it didn't do 'em much good.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 09:16 am
@rosborne979,
The Catholic Churches had this big "Vote yer Catholic Values" as a shot across Obama's bow. The priest gave a homily at a church my neighbor attends. He said that the homily was about how the massive voice of "Love" for the unborn would show, once and for all, how Catholics will support LIFE .

They Got their uppances came. Never predict without facts, see what Romney Inc has learnt?
rosborne979
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 09:27 am
@farmerman,
I've read that the fastest growing "religious" group in the US these days is a group calling themselves "not religious" Smile

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 09:55 am
@farmerman,
But simply because 2.7% more voted Dem than Rep does not mean abortion is right and nor does it mean that it is sound policy.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 09:59 am
@spendius,
Don't forget what Arthur Eddington said fm.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 10:33 am
@spendius,
Specifically, a womans rights in reproductive freedom was NOT on the ballot. Thats already the law.

Try to make your case with someone who actually gives a **** about your opinions
wandeljw
 
  3  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 10:34 am
@JPB,
The watchdog organization, mentioned in the news story provided by JPB, issued a formal complaint to the IRS on November 2. Here is a link to a pdf copy of the actual complaint:
http://www.citizensforethics.org/page/-/PDFs/Legal/Letters/IRS/11_02_12_IRS_Complaint_US_Catholic_Bishops.pdf
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 12:01 pm
@farmerman,
And a bunch of elderly conservative men made it law.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 01:02 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Try to make your case with someone who actually gives a **** about your opinions


And I don't give a shite what anybody who thinks that means something thinks about my posts.

You singled me out yesterday for special mention on a thread with a lot of posts on it as the only one trying to get attention. Thus implying that all the others,and yourself, have some other reason and trying to round up another claque using your tried and tested method.

Nobody with any intelligence would believe that abortion is right or sound policy on the basis of Mr Obama winning 2.7% of the popular vote more than Mr Romney and failing to carry the House.

What a ridiculous non sequitur that is. So much so that it would be hilarious if it wasn't that the subject is not funny.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  4  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 02:47 pm
Quote:
Churches Shouldn’t Be The Next Super PACs
(Bill Buck, Opinion Essay, CBS.com, November 13, 2012)

It is time to end the tax exempt status of religious organizations that advocated for a partisan candidate.

Churches are free to exercise their First Amendment guaranteed right to free speech. But they cannot serve a partisan function and retain their tax-free status.

If churches wish to join the political process then they must function the way any other organization in the political sphere does.

Advocating for or against a candidate is wrong. There has to be a clear distinction between what is church and charity and what is partisan and political.

The political watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) asked the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to “investigate the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops for engaging in prohibited political activity in violation of its protected tax status.”

In their press release they cite a number of press reports of bishops advocating against the election of President Barack Obama. For example, in Illinois, Bishop Daniel Jenky — who previously compared President Obama to Stalin and Hitler — required every priest in his diocese to read a statement condemning the administration and instructing parishioners that those that do not heed his word have no salvation.

The Bishops are not the only tax exempt church entity to violate the law regarding tax exempt status.

A complaint has also been filed with the IRS by the Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation about the activities of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.

Churches play an important role in our communities and should be a place where partisanship is put aside.

It is appropriate for churches to advocate for members to participate in the political process, to vote their values and their conscience.

But there is enough partisanship in our country that tax exempt churches do not need to get into the fray.

If, however, they chose to do that then they must give up their tax exempt status.

The last thing this country needs is for churches to become the next Super PAC where outside money flows through religious institutions to affect the outcome of elections.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 02:12 pm
Complaints TO the IRS were a first step, but now there is a lawsuit AGAINST the IRS.

Quote:
FFRF sues IRS to enforce church electioneering ban
( Freedom From Religion Foundation Press Release, November 14, 2012)

The Freedom From Religion Foundation is taking the Internal Revenue Service to court over its failure to enforce electioneering restrictions against churches and religious organizations, calling it a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment and of FFRF’s equal protection rights. FFRF filed the lawsuit today in U.S. District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin.

A widely circulated Bloomberg news article quoted Russell Renwicks, with the IRS’ Tax-Exempt and Government Entities division, saying the IRS has suspended tax audits of churches. Other sources claim the IRS hasn’t been auditing churches since 2009. (See AP Religion Writer Rachel Zoll’s story, “IRS Not Enforcing Rules on Churches and Politics.”) Although an IRS spokesman claimed Renwicks “misspoke,” there appears to be no evidence of IRS inquiries or action in the past three years.

As many as 1,500 clergy reportedly violated the electioneering restrictions on Sunday, Oct. 7, 2012, notes FFRF’s legal complaint. The complaint also references “blatantly political” full-page ads running in the three Sundays leading up to the presidential elections by the Billy Graham Evangelical Association.

FFRF, a state/church watchdog based in Madison, Wis., is asking the the federal court to enjoin IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman from continuing “a policy of non-enforcement of the electioneering restrictions against churches and religious organizations.”

Additionally, FFRF seeks to order Shulman “to authorize a high-ranking official within the IRS to approve and initiate enforcement of the restrictions of §501(c)(3) against churches and religious organizations, including the electioneering restrictions, as required by law.”

FFRF has more than 19,000 members nationwide “who are opposed to government preferences and favoritism toward religion.” FFRF is regularly contacted by its members and members of the public over specific and general violations of church electioneering restrictions, and FFRF staff attorneys regularly ask the IRS to investigate such violations.

This non-enforcement “constitutes preferential treatment to churches and religious organizations that is not provided to other tax-exempt organizations, including FFRF,” the complaint notes. “Churches and religious organizations obtain a significant benefit as a result of being non-exempt from income taxation, while also being able to preferentially engage in electioneering, which is something secular tax-exempt organizations cannot do.”

This preferential tax exemption involves more than $100 billion annually in tax-free contributions to churches and religious organizations in the United States.

In addition to reporting the Graham ministry’s electioneering to the IRS, FFRF has sent letters of complaint to the IRS involving 27 other such violations so far this year. Recent complaints include:

• Green Bay Bishop David L. Ricken, who wrote an article on diocesan letterhead inserted in all parish bulletins about voting and choosing the president and other offices. Ricken warned that if Catholics vote for a party or candidate who supports abortion rights or marriage equality, “you could be morally ‘complicit’ with these choices which are intrinsically evil. This could put your own soul in jeopardy.”

• Peoria Bishop Daniel R. Jenky, who, in an April homily, sharply criticized President Obama, referencing the 2012 presidential election, saying Obama was “following a similar path” as Hitler and Stalin. Jenky said “every practicing Catholic must vote, and must vote their Catholic consciences. . .”

• Bishop Robert Morlino of Madison, Wis., who wrote a Nov. 1 article, “Official guidelines for forming a Catholic conscience in the Diocese of Madison,” published in the Catholic Herald, spelling out “non-negotiable” political areas. “No Catholic may, in good conscience, vote for ‘pro-choice’ candidates [or] . . . for candidates who promote ‘same-sex marriage.’ ”

The lawsuit, FFRF v. IRS, (12-cv-818), was filed by attorney Richard L. Bolton on behalf of FFRF.


Here is a link to a pdf copy of the lawsuit:
http://ffrf.org/images/uploads/legal/IRSlawsuit2012.pdf
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 02:23 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
“No Catholic may, in good conscience, vote for ‘pro-choice’ candidates [or] . . . for candidates who promote ‘same-sex marriage.’ ”


That's a fact. It is not a political view.

Churches are hard pressed in these trying times of auisterity and sacrifice and if they lost their tax exemption they might disappear and whole districts and towns or even cities might become churchless and then what would the population do? Having Sunday off might disappear.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 02:28 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

But simply because 2.7% more voted Dem than Rep does not mean abortion is right and nor does it mean that it is sound policy.


Conversely, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 03:05 pm
@roger,
It should only be allowed when it is established scientifically that human life does not begin at conception. Legal wordplay notwithstanding.

It is not sound policy if it does something to us all which should not be done. I realise that the "should" implies a moral position but who we are is an entirely moral position. Also, what should not be done cannot be judged when the reasons it should not be done are not fully understood, or hardly understood, or not understood at all, or on Ignore.

We have an excuse for that, apart from the last, because of the mass psychological complexities involved, but I hardly think USSC justices are allowed to use it. Diluting a sense of the sanctity of human life and of romantic love are not small matters.

We demonstrate that sense by hiding abortion from view just as we learned to hide executions and by not talking about any real abortions in any adult manner and using the word abstractedly just as the Soviets used "administrative liquidation".

Our mass shame about abortion is palpable. And rightly so.

The anti-abortionist can go before any scientific peer-group and demonstrate that human life begins at conception and that the life does not give a tuppenny-damn how it got here. what anybody thinks about it or what sort of condition it is in. Just like an infant. It has one great instinct--to survive.

Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 03:10 pm
@spendius,
I find it funny that as a man you feel you get a say in this, spendi.

damn funny...
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 03:12 pm
@Rockhead,
I was just thinking, yet again, that Spendi may be one of the best long time put-ons we've seen here.

But then I go back to what I think I think is real, that he means all of this.

But he's too smart. So then I go back to the best put-on of all time a2k, and so on.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 03:59 pm
@Rockhead,
Well obviously Rockie you didn't understand my post and there's nothing I can do about that. I don't know how to make it simpler.

And you are having your say too.
 

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