1
   

The buried faith of America

 
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2004 11:17 am
How can you believe in somthing that you have absolutely no evidence for? I mean, it would be nice, but that doesn't make it true.

Do you think there is a hell? What do you think this eternal life will be like?

I am assuming you believe in somthing akin to the soul that survives bodily death.
0 Replies
 
Thunder Cloud
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2004 01:48 pm
Portal Star wrote:
How can you believe in somthing that you have absolutely no evidence for? I mean, it would be nice, but that doesn't make it true.

Do you think there is a hell? What do you think this eternal life will be like?

I am assuming you believe in somthing akin to the soul that survives bodily death.


Firstly, let me clarify...I am not a believer. I either know something is true, or I do not.

I do have clear evidence for the things that I know. Like I said, it is not something that is randomly presented to people. It comes with a certain degree of responsibility.

The only "Hell" that I have seen is the generation in the future who will know that there are some on other worlds who live a better quality of existence and even have eternal life. They will not only know that they went down the wrong path, but their children will be questioning them. This will become more profound than one might realize. The only other "Hell" that exists is the constant struggle against the devastation of existence in this world and even dealing with the accursed state of the human mind and body.

Chapter 10 of the book of Daniel gives an excellent description of how a person reacts to being given this knowledge.
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2004 02:55 pm
Thunder Cloud wrote:

I do have clear evidence for the things that I know. Like I said, it is not something that is randomly presented to people. It comes with a certain degree of responsibility.


what is the clear evidence. If it is not randomly presented to people, how is this knowledge of the afterlife presented? What responsibility?
0 Replies
 
Thunder Cloud
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2004 04:01 pm
Portal Star wrote:
Thunder Cloud wrote:

I do have clear evidence for the things that I know. Like I said, it is not something that is randomly presented to people. It comes with a certain degree of responsibility.


what is the clear evidence. If it is not randomly presented to people, how is this knowledge of the afterlife presented? What responsibility?


The clear evidence of a better quality of existence in Heaven and evidence of afterlifes or past lives are somewhat two different things. Evidence of past lives comes from knowing about certain religious-type sciences like "necromancy", knowing how spirits move, and knowing God.

Without that education you will perceive things differently, like: When dogs once ran wild and slept in tall grassfields. How they would enter the field and walk in a circle to pat down the grass. How even many generations of dogs today have lived in homes...yet still walk in a circle before lying down. Instinct? Or something beyond? Your answer will depend upon your spiritual education.
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2004 04:31 pm
Thunder Cloud wrote:
Portal Star wrote:
Thunder Cloud wrote:

I do have clear evidence for the things that I know. Like I said, it is not something that is randomly presented to people. It comes with a certain degree of responsibility.


what is the clear evidence. If it is not randomly presented to people, how is this knowledge of the afterlife presented? What responsibility?


The clear evidence of a better quality of existence in Heaven and evidence of afterlifes or past lives are somewhat two different things. Evidence of past lives comes from knowing about certain religious-type sciences like "necromancy", knowing how spirits move, and knowing God.

Without that education you will perceive things differently, like: When dogs once ran wild and slept in tall grassfields. How they would enter the field and walk in a circle to pat down the grass. How even many generations of dogs today have lived in homes...yet still walk in a circle before lying down. Instinct? Or something beyond? Your answer will depend upon your spiritual education.


Instinct. It gets rid of the bugs and makes it cozy. Why do humans like to stretch when they wake up? Somthing spiritual, or the fact that it feels good?

You can't have a religious-type science because science requires physical evidence. We have no physical evidence of the existance of a soul or spirits, even though numerous studies have been constructed. There is no physical change in the environment and nothing physically observable that is connected with "spirit." How would you know if you lost yours? What if you had 5,000 spirits running through you every second? How would you know the difference?
0 Replies
 
Thunder Cloud
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2004 05:09 pm
Portal Star wrote:
Thunder Cloud wrote:
Portal Star wrote:
Thunder Cloud wrote:

I do have clear evidence for the things that I know. Like I said, it is not something that is randomly presented to people. It comes with a certain degree of responsibility.


what is the clear evidence. If it is not randomly presented to people, how is this knowledge of the afterlife presented? What responsibility?


The clear evidence of a better quality of existence in Heaven and evidence of afterlifes or past lives are somewhat two different things. Evidence of past lives comes from knowing about certain religious-type sciences like "necromancy", knowing how spirits move, and knowing God.

Without that education you will perceive things differently, like: When dogs once ran wild and slept in tall grassfields. How they would enter the field and walk in a circle to pat down the grass. How even many generations of dogs today have lived in homes...yet still walk in a circle before lying down. Instinct? Or something beyond? Your answer will depend upon your spiritual education.


Instinct. It gets rid of the bugs and makes it cozy. Why do humans like to stretch when they wake up? Somthing spiritual, or the fact that it feels good?

You can't have a religious-type science because science requires physical evidence. We have no physical evidence of the existance of a soul or spirits, even though numerous studies have been constructed. There is no physical change in the environment and nothing physically observable that is connected with "spirit." How would you know if you lost yours? What if you had 5,000 spirits running through you every second? How would you know the difference?


Regarding the spirits thing: Everyone has but one spirit. That spirit comes back every 2,000 years or so. Spitirs do not go through bodies.

If someone were to study forensically the remains of someone in their past life and found it to be identical to their entire medical history in their life today...this would be their scientific evidence and not yours. Generally, those who find such evidence do not share with the public. Why? Too much of the general public will be going to purgatory at best anyway. Heaven would not be paradise if it were genetically contaminated.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2004 08:03 pm
truth
Thunder Cloud, my statement earlier about not accepting the notion of religious leadership or authority is to be understood primarily in the context of my preference for the meditative branches of Buddhism. The Buddha's final words were "Be a lantern unto yourself." The assumption here is that all people have "Buddha Mind", that we all have within us all that is needed to become spiritually enlightened beings. Now this individualism is not obvious in theocratic societies (perhaps with the exception of theocratic Tibetan Buddhism) where political and religious authority are fused and where individuals feel constrained to conform to communal norms of belief and ceremonial conduct. I do not know much about the religious systems of Native Americans in the United States (perhaps a bit about Pueblo nations), but I have lived for three years among Maya townsmen and villagers in southeastern Mexico, and have seen what happens when the village's religious leaders (somewhat, but not completely) coincide with its elders--where these leaders are able to effectively ostracize young men by denying them the right to communal lands if they prove to be doctrinally unorthodox. I saw mostly conformity and punishment, very little worship and appreciation in that system. Protestantism is making great inroads into such communities because of their failings. And this is partly because of the relative separation of protestantism and local government. The pastors, whether Americans or natives, have no official political power. They can cajole but not coerce.
0 Replies
 
Derevon
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2004 08:28 pm
Portal Star wrote:
We have no physical evidence of the existance of a soul or spirits, even though numerous studies have been constructed. There is no physical change in the environment and nothing physically observable that is connected with "spirit." How would you know if you lost yours? What if you had 5,000 spirits running through you every second? How would you know the difference?


Well, there are near-death experiences. Lots of people who've been resuscitated after heart failures and such, have reported seeing themselves from above, meeting with deceased friends and relatives etc. There are many things about these experiences that lack plausible scientific explanations. For example, I've never heard about an NDE where somebody claims to have met someone who is still alive. Also, people who've been born blind have reported being able to see in this state.
0 Replies
 
Thunder Cloud
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2004 10:54 pm
Re: truth
JLNobody wrote:
Thunder Cloud, my statement earlier about not accepting the notion of religious leadership or authority is to be understood primarily in the context of my preference for the meditative branches of Buddhism. The Buddha's final words were "Be a lantern unto yourself." The assumption here is that all people have "Buddha Mind", that we all have within us all that is needed to become spiritually enlightened beings. Now this individualism is not obvious in theocratic societies (perhaps with the exception of theocratic Tibetan Buddhism) where political and religious authority are fused and where individuals feel constrained to conform to communal norms of belief and ceremonial conduct. I do not know much about the religious systems of Native Americans in the United States (perhaps a bit about Pueblo nations), but I have lived for three years among Maya townsmen and villagers in southeastern Mexico, and have seen what happens when the village's religious leaders (somewhat, but not completely) coincide with its elders--where these leaders are able to effectively ostracize young men by denying them the right to communal lands if they prove to be doctrinally unorthodox. I saw mostly conformity and punishment, very little worship and appreciation in that system. Protestantism is making great inroads into such communities because of their failings. And this is partly because of the relative separation of protestantism and religion. The pastors, wether Americans or natives, have no political power. They can cajole but not coerce.


I agree that everyone has the potential for spiritual enlightenment, but sometimes there are things which put spiritual blinders on people. Anyone with a true knowledge of this greater understanding called enlightenment knows that the majority are clueless. One can only begin to imagine the ramifications regarding spiritual unity on the N. American continent if the Universal Hierarchy itself recognizes a depleted, reclusive, and virtually unknown group of people. One only need to speak with people and read forum posts to see that there are so many different opinions regarding all aspects of Religion and recognize that there is more confusion and unknowns than anything else.

This is not even to say that there is more than mere potential for spiritual leadership or that there is more than a mere link, or window to the once well-gounded spirituality of the people on the continent.

What is the mindset of those who acknowledge their own championship in life, without knowing that the cards were stacked in their favor? Is it a true sense of self-confidence? It would not take a great medical scientist to determine that the American Indians have been emotionally handicapped. Taking advantage of someones weakness in a competitive atmosphere is one thing, but taking advantage of handicapped people is quite another matter. Is it not?

Whether it was their spiritual awe, or their wearing of feathers, the Apache were once a group of people who existed near other "races". They were stigmatized as useless cowards. The people of Iran have ancient scrolls which depict those who wore feathers. When Iranian students were invited to the U.S. in the late 70's, the first thing they did was visit one of the Reservations. One can only imagine that they were told or got the impression that some of the American Indians felt like hostages in their own country. Didn't the Iranians become the "bad guys" when they protested? There is also much more to what happened in those days.

Often when I think I have something down well...one little truth can suddenly change it all. The truth of a matter depends upon the angle which it is viewed from, so I try to see things from all angles and determine the least incorrect conclusion.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2004 11:11 pm
truth
TC, "the truth of a matter depends on the angle [from] which it is viewed..." I agree. Perspective is all.
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2004 01:35 am
Derevon wrote:
Portal Star wrote:
We have no physical evidence of the existance of a soul or spirits, even though numerous studies have been constructed. There is no physical change in the environment and nothing physically observable that is connected with "spirit." How would you know if you lost yours? What if you had 5,000 spirits running through you every second? How would you know the difference?


Well, there are near-death experiences. Lots of people who've been resuscitated after heart failures and such, have reported seeing themselves from above, meeting with deceased friends and relatives etc. There are many things about these experiences that lack plausible scientific explanations. For example, I've never heard about an NDE where somebody claims to have met someone who is still alive. Also, people who've been born blind have reported being able to see in this state.


neuroscientists are working on tackling near-death experience and the subconcious, I trust their research over some mythological garble from a book anyday.

Thundercloud-
and we have 17 chakra-pounds and on the 27000th day the sparrows will fly and carry with them our eyelids. And the frogs will be reborn as they have been every century, like the pheonix. The archaeologists know this but they are hiding the truth. They know we cannot handle the discreet frog juices.
0 Replies
 
Thunder Cloud
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2004 03:54 pm
I am not sure that their research would be agreed upon by all of them in any near future, but an NDE is something which changes a person. Not in merely an "oh I see the light now" way either. You can google an NDE forum and find that they all say they are changed from it.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 10/01/2024 at 09:38:26