5
   

Do humans have intrinsic moral value?

 
 
cheeser
 
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 03:42 am
i would like your opinion and explanation please.
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 03:47 am
@cheeser,
We are pack animals, so yes we do have the morals of any other pack animal wired into our DNA.
cheeser
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 05:32 am
@BillRM,
so whats your definition of moral
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 05:50 am
@cheeser,
Morals?

Acting in the best interest of the pack and placing the pack welfare on roughly equal footing to your own.

Do not kill within the pack, do not try to interfere with mated couples inside the pack, do not seize property of others inside the pack and so on............

See the ten commandments as instructions to keep the peace inside the tribe/pack..

cheeser
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 05:55 am
@BillRM,
i would argue then that we just have these moral compulsions in order to better serve the pack, and increase its chances of survival.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 05:58 am
@cheeser,
Quote:
i would argue then that we just have these moral compulsions in order to better serve the pack, and increase its chances of survival.


What other reason would you have morals in an animal human or otherwise?

Religions for example was invented to help keep order in the pack once more see the ten commandments for an example of that.
cheeser
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 06:05 am
@BillRM,
but aren't morals meant to serve some higher purpose, this is just natural selection. I don't actually believe they exist or that humans have them.
rosborne979
 
  4  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 06:54 am
@cheeser,
cheeser wrote:

i would argue then that we just have these moral compulsions in order to better serve the pack, and increase its chances of survival.

At its deepest level moral behavior derives from empathy and compassion which are emotional states. Those things in turn help bind groups together which help survival. Morality and ethics are constructed around those interests.
Telamon
 
  3  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 07:12 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

cheeser wrote:

i would argue then that we just have these moral compulsions in order to better serve the pack, and increase its chances of survival.

At its deepest level moral behavior derives from empathy and compassion which are emotional states. Those things in turn help bind groups together which help survival. Morality and ethics are constructed around those interests.

^About sums it up.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 10:38 am
@cheeser,
Quote:
but aren't morals meant to serve some higher purpose,


NO......and the survival and happiness of the human race overall seems a fairly higher purpose at least to me.
Mockingclown
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 11:27 am
@cheeser,
No. Morality is socially constructed. However the level of intrinsic value placed on an animal is in relation to whether if an animals has moral status.
cheeser
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 03:08 pm
@BillRM,
Yes, to YOU, but that's no exactly an objective point of view: why the hell does anything else care about the abstract concept of human morals.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 07:12 pm
@cheeser,
Quote:
why the hell does anything else care about the abstract concept of human morals


Abstract?????? what is abstract about morals base on pack evolution?

Nothing abstract about a man jumping into a freezing river when a jet liner crash into it and who helped save one person after another until the cold claimed his life for example.

rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2012 07:24 pm
@Telamon,
Telamon wrote:

^About sums it up.
I try Smile

We've had questions about morality before and I remember I've deconstructed the emotional structure and evolutionary connections before. Just wish I could find those threads and what I wrote, but I've lost them.
0 Replies
 
cheeser
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 12:03 am
@BillRM,
Whether abstract is the correct word or not, you missed the point of the post, read it again.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 03:48 am
@cheeser,
Well I did read your posting once more and if that is not your meaning then it is your job to make it clearer.

Morals are real and the foundation is build into us by evolution for the purpose of survival of mankind.

That however does not make it somehow less wonderful anymore then the love I feel when looking at my sleeping wife or the fact that I would without question give my life up to protect her is any less wonderful for being base on evolutional needs.
cheeser
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 04:16 am
@BillRM,
well, i think that's a poor argument , you say it doesn't make it any less wonderful, well then why not? The fact that "morals" ultimately have there base in evolution, by definition means that they don't actually exist it just means thinking constructs in order to fecilitate survival. There is no higer purpose or good to emotions there just a chain of rather neutral chemical reactions.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 04:30 am
@cheeser,
Let me get this straight if the foundation of morals and the ability to love for that matter was build into us by some supreme being for some higher "purpose" instead of by the actions of evolution it would be more wonderful then it is and have more meanings?

Is that where you are coming from?

Sorry but to me it is the results that matter not that the means to those results was driven by the needs of evolution and not the needs or wishes or whims of some god or other.
cheeser
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 05:49 am
@BillRM,
no, in fact i believe what ever the method of genesis, there is no moral value, morals do not exist.
So don't presume to know my mind with out asking the question.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2012 06:43 am
@cheeser,
I have a question mark after my question and it is not my fault you are not being clear it is your.

Now there is morals and they do exist not only in regard to humans but in regards to many higher animals such as dogs and wolves.
 

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