firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 11:08 am
@firefly,
The reason he faces doubled charges on both first degree murder and attempted murder is apparently because he will be prosecuted for these crimes as being both premeditated and displaying extreme indifference to human life.

He did not enter a plea today. Cameras were not allowed in the courtroom.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 11:11 am
@firefly,
My understanding (based on the NPR reports) is that the number of attempted murder charges against him will be based on the movie attendance figures. It will be assumed that his intention was to kill everyone in the theater regardless of whether they were actually wounded by a bullet or not.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 11:19 am
@Lustig Andrei,
And my info came from a legal analyst on a cable network that covers trials. She was present in the courtroom and said she had a copy of the formal complaint filed against Holmes.

The charges are doubled--he killed 12, and is charged with 24 counts of first degree murder, he wounded 58, and is charged with 116 counts of attempted murder.

The charges can't be based on the number of people in attendance at the theater--they have to be based on the actual number of people he harmed and killed.

The criminal complaint is aleady online.
http://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/18th_Judicial_District/18th_Courts/12CR1522/2012-07-30%2012CR1522%20Complaint.pdf

He is being charged with first degree murder based on both premeditation/deliberate intent to cause death, and extreme indifference to human life, for each of the 12 people he killed, and each of the 58 he attempted to kill. That's why the counts against him are doubled.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 02:34 pm
@firefly,
NPR has been known to be wrong before.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 03:12 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

The reason he faces doubled charges on both first degree murder and attempted murder is apparently because he will be prosecuted for these crimes as being both premeditated and displaying extreme indifference to human life.

He did not enter a plea today. Cameras were not allowed in the courtroom.

The American state specializes in making single acts multiple crimes...logic be danned.
Adam4Adam
 
  3  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 03:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
Is this dumb old bastard for real? Laughing
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 03:59 pm
@Adam4Adam,
Adam4Adam wrote:

Is this dumb old bastard for real? Laughing

Of course not...Hawkeye is virtual, he is often a slice of a real human and sometimes a provocateur who stirs the pot a bit as a public service...in the hopes of getting a debate going to get us closer to the truth
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 04:02 pm
@Adam4Adam,
a legend in his own sick twisted mind...
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 04:47 pm
@Adam4Adam,
Adam4Adam wrote:

Is this dumb old bastard for real? Laughing


What's your definition for "real" ? Smile
Adam4Adam
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 04:58 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Is it human or alien? Laughing
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 02:21 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
The reason he faces doubled charges on both first degree murder and attempted murder is apparently because he will be prosecuted for these crimes as being both premeditated and displaying extreme indifference to human life.


I assume that the jury will only be able to convict on one of the two versions.

Sort of like a jury choosing between convicting someone of first degree or second degree murder, but not being able to convict someone of both first *and* second degree murder (for the same killing).
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 08:53 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
I assume that the jury will only be able to convict on one of the two versions.


this is sarcasm, correct? The way I understand it the state fully intends to get two convictions on the same bullet.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 08:54 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

I assume that the jury will only be able to convict on one of the two versions.

These aren't two "versions". He is charged with violating two different sections of the Colorado law for first degree murder for each victim he killed. A jury can convict on both violations of that law.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 09:31 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
oralloy wrote:
I assume that the jury will only be able to convict on one of the two versions.


this is sarcasm, correct? The way I understand it the state fully intends to get two convictions on the same bullet.


Not sarcasm. I expect the jury will have to pick one of the two versions (like giving them a choice between first and second degree murder).
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 09:31 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
oralloy wrote:
I assume that the jury will only be able to convict on one of the two versions.


These aren't two "versions". He is charged with violating two different sections of the Colorado law for first degree murder for each victim he killed.


Versions, sections, tomato, tomahto.



firefly wrote:
A jury can convict on both violations of that law.


I'll be surprised if that is the case.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 09:37 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
. I expect the jury will have to pick one of the two versions (like giving them a choice between first and second degree murder).

You are incorrect. He is charged with two separate violations of the Colorado law for Murder in the First Degree, and for attempted murder, for each victim--the jury can convict on one or both of those violations for each charge.
Quote:

I'll be surprised if that is the case.

Your ignorance of the law isn't surprising.

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2012 10:08 am
Quote:
What did James Holmes' psychiatrist know -- and when?
By Dr. Keith Ablow
July 31, 2012

James Holmes, the Colorado student accused of killing 12 people and wounding dozens more, was reportedly under the care of Dr. Lynne Fenton, a psychiatrist who serves as the University of Colorado mental health services director.

Dr. Fenton is also the person to whom James Holmes reportedly mailed a notebook detailing his plans to attack others.

If both reports are true, it would be very unlikely that Holmes’ notebook was the first time he communicated his violent fantasies to Fenton. Having worked with thousands of mentally ill patients — some of whom have had very violent intentions and shared them with me (often resulting in my hospitalizing them, against their will) — I have never known a single one who contains all thoughts of violence while in treatment, but catalogs them in writing, then sends the written documentation through the mail.

It would be such a rare and shocking event that a psychiatric journal would be more than happy to publish the clinical account.

It is much more likely that Holmes alluded to his thoughts of harming others during one or more sessions with his psychiatrist, in one or more emails to his psychiatrist or during phone conversations with his psychiatrist.

Therefore, the Holmes case has the potential to become not only one of the most tragic criminal cases in America, but one of the most tragic cases of malpractice — ever.

No one can know at this moment what Fenton knew and when she knew it, but that investigation is, no doubt, now under way. It will, at some point, include a review of Fenton’s progress notes and other elements of Holmes’ medical chart, a review of Fenton’s and Holmes’ email accounts, a review of any data retrievable from Fenton’s and Holmes’ text messages and a deposition of Fenton in which she is questioned directly about any violent thoughts, whether delusional or not, Holmes may have shared with her.

The reason one can have no confidence that a story like the Colorado shooting will turn out to have no “fingerprints” from psychiatry on it is that psychiatry as a profession remains far too timid about hospitalizing the violent mentally ill against their will. Certainly, no one would suggest that anyone err on the side of caution, rather than the side of civil rights (not me, certainly), but I have found it very frustrating to battle again and again with colleagues when I urge them to hospitalize — or keep hospitalized more than a day or two — patients who present a clear risk to themselves or others.

Occasionally, in fact, people will confess extremely concerning thoughts in my office, some of them even in response to hallucinations, then be released from the emergency rooms where I have them taken (sometimes by police) because they “contract for safety” (meaning, faced with being placed on a locked psychiatric unit they — not surprisingly — promise not to hurt anyone).

Medical insurance companies are accomplices in this incredibly dangerous game. They often refuse to pay for inpatient hospitalization for any individual who is willing to retract a violent threat once in the emergency room, despite the fact that it was made with grave seriousness in a doctor’s office or to a family member.

Again, as I have said before, the tragedy in Colorado will turn out to have nothing whatsoever to do with gun laws and everything to do with our broken mental health care system. Just watch.

Dr. Keith Ablow is a psychiatrist and member of the Fox News Medical A-Team. Dr. Ablow can be reached at [email protected].
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/07/31/what-did-james-holmes-psychiatrist-know-and-when/#ixzz22DVYhNCY
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 12:32 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
oralloy wrote:
I expect the jury will have to pick one of the two versions (like giving them a choice between first and second degree murder).


You are incorrect. He is charged with two separate violations of the Colorado law for Murder in the First Degree, and for attempted murder, for each victim--the jury can convict on one or both of those violations for each charge.


Oh? Says who?



firefly wrote:
oralloy wrote:
I'll be surprised if that is the case.


Your ignorance of the law isn't surprising.


You sure have a big mouth. But what are the odds that once again you will turn out to be the one who doesn't know what they are talking about?
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 01:02 am
@oralloy,
I thought you had me ignore. Laughing

Why don't you put me back on ignore. I really don't want to waste my time responding to you.

FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 02:08 am
@Lash,
I wonder Lash if we are missing something and off course, I am speculating.

He was studying, PhD, in Neuroscience...


Quote:
The doctoral program is usually completed in six years, with the last two years devoted to preparing and defending the dissertation.


He was 24 right? It takes 6 years to complete this course and he exited... Why?

What if he had what he was studying? Or, worse believed he did, due to being mentally ill.. He's going to die, might as well kill everyone he can, how dare they live and him not. And, maybe Batman was his favourite cartoon, from growing up....

This would put a different twist on "God told me to do it".

I also don't believe in the Death penalty.. But, if this was the case, above, it shows he's highly intelligent but also perhaps nuts.


Quote:
If your nervous system failed, you would lose feeling of every part of your body. Touch prevents you from destroying your body and tearing it apart. If you lose touch, which is when your nervous system fails, you will unknowingly tear your body to shreds, and your whole body will ultimately fail and collapse. no messages would get sent around your body telling your body what to do.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_would_happen_to_your_body_if_the_nervous_system_failed#ixzz22HPjx5nQ
0 Replies
 
 

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