9
   

After life (soul), does it exist, is it real.

 
 
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 10:50 am
Last night I dreamed about my dad and mom sitting on the front porch. When I woke I remembered that I had several dreams about them, and my dead son and two dead brothers over the years, both individually and together. Suddenly it occurred to me that everyone had those same kind of dreams, and way back in the past that superstitious people could see dreams as continuation of an after life.

Fortunately I got along with my parents very well so there was no apprehension, but what about others who who were not so lucky? Dreams of their parents could be nightmares, premonitions of things to come, etc
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 10:54 am
@Rickoshay75,
People get out of their human bodies ofen.
Thay need not wait until their human bodies die.

Its not news any more (but its fun to DO it).





David
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 02:43 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

People get out of their human bodies ofen.
Thay need not wait until their human bodies die.

Its not news any more (but its fun to DO it).

How, with drugs?





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 09:11 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Sometimes, drugs have accomplished that.
In my experience, u can try a lot and fail. Disappointment.

Then YEARS later, when I am not thinking about it,
all of a sudden IT HAPPENS and the REAL ME is out,
looking at myself on-the-job in court,
or about to start eating lunch in a Friendly Ice Cream Restaurant.

It feels nice; it makes me feel happy, but it has been too short of duration.

I just saw on TV the History Chanel 2, the account of a boy,
James Leininger, who before he was fully verbal at age 2, had a series of screaming
nightmares of being trapped in a plane shot down by the Japs in World War II.
He remembered the name of his aircraft carrier.
He remembered the names of his fellow officers
who 'd also been shot down & killed b4 he was,
(Walter, Leon and Billie) who welcomed him in Heaven.

His sister was still alive; he requested and received
a painting that their mother had drawn of him
that had been stored away in the attic for 5O years
of which no one knew, but his sister and him.

As a little boy, he matter-of-factly mentioned very incidentally
to his dad that when he found them in a pink colored hotel in Hawaii,
he knew that thay 'd be good parents. He had not been informed
that thay had gone to Hawaii where he was conceived in that hotel on vacation.

So, the answer to your question is: YES,
drugs can get u out, but the Japs coud do it too.




David
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 05:00 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Sometimes, drugs have accomplished that.
In my experience, u can try a lot and fail. Disappointment.

Then YEARS later, when I am not thinking about it,
all of a sudden IT HAPPENS and the REAL ME is out,
looking at myself on-the-job in court,
or about to start eating lunch in a Friendly Ice Cream Restaurant.

It feels nice; it makes me feel happy, but it has been too short of duration.

I just saw on TV the History Chanel 2, the account of a boy,
James Leininger, who before he was fully verbal at age 2, had a series of screaming
nightmares of being trapped in a plane shot down by the Japs in World War II.
He remembered the name of his aircraft carrier.
He remembered the names of his fellow officers
who 'd also been shot down & killed b4 he was,
(Walter, Leon and Billie) who welcomed him in Heaven.

His sister was still alive; he requested and received
a painting that their mother had drawn of him
that had been stored away in the attic for 5O years
of which no one knew, but his sister and him.

As a little boy, he matter-of-factly mentioned very incidentally
to his dad that when he found them in a pink colored hotel in Hawaii,
he knew that thay 'd be good parents. He had not been informed
that thay had gone to Hawaii where he was conceived in that hotel on vacation.

So, the answer to your question is: YES,
drugs can get u out, but the Japs coud do it too.




David


Come to think about it, I did have an out of body experience while I was breathing 2 percent CO2. I was on the outside seeing my head from every angle, sort of like a panoramic view
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jun, 2012 03:13 am
@Rickoshay75,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Sometimes, drugs have accomplished that.
In my experience, u can try a lot and fail. Disappointment.

Then YEARS later, when I am not thinking about it,
all of a sudden IT HAPPENS and the REAL ME is out,
looking at myself on-the-job in court,
or about to start eating lunch in a Friendly Ice Cream Restaurant.

It feels nice; it makes me feel happy, but it has been too short of duration.

I just saw on TV the History Chanel 2, the account of a boy,
James Leininger, who before he was fully verbal at age 2, had a series of screaming
nightmares of being trapped in a plane shot down by the Japs in World War II.
He remembered the name of his aircraft carrier.
He remembered the names of his fellow officers
who 'd also been shot down & killed b4 he was,
(Walter, Leon and Billie) who welcomed him in Heaven.

His sister was still alive; he requested and received
a painting that their mother had drawn of him
that had been stored away in the attic for 5O years
of which no one knew, but his sister and him.

As a little boy, he matter-of-factly mentioned very incidentally
to his dad that when he found them in a pink colored hotel in Hawaii,
he knew that thay 'd be good parents. He had not been informed
that thay had gone to Hawaii where he was conceived in that hotel on vacation.

So, the answer to your question is: YES,
drugs can get u out, but the Japs coud do it too.




David
Rickoshay75 wrote:
Come to think about it, I did have an out of body experience
while I was breathing 2 percent CO2. I was on the outside seeing
my head from every angle, sort of like a panoramic view
It seems to be the case that a lot of people believe
that thay will appear to be smarter, more impressive,
if thay profess strict materialism.

This was the turn of mind that moved respected scientists
to stoutly declaim, before the Wright Brothers flight in Kitty Hawk
that heavier than air flight was IMPOSSIBLE,
as the robbins & the eagles flew by overhead. Its short-sighted, but harmless.





David
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2012 01:28 pm
@Rickoshay75,
There is no factual answer to your question in the headline.

A common assumption among those who reject ideas of afterlife and gods is that those dreams are merely memories happening in your subconscious while you sleep.
Those who want to believe in a life after death often read more into such dreams.
Either way, dreaming of someone you've lost can be a powerful emotional impact, and if you miss those people, it can be a welcome and comforting experience.
In my experience, dreams, especially powerful dreams that linger after waking, are usually my own subconscious trying to tell me something. If I have a problem in life that I either ignore or don't know how to deal with, I've sometimes experienced that seemingly unrelated dreams put me in a mind frame where I can relate to and resolve these issues easier. Might be coincidental, though. I do not know. All I know is that I like dreams and dreaming.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2012 02:17 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:
There is no factual answer to your question in the headline.
Whatever the actual extant state of affairs is,
is the "factual answer."




Cyracuz wrote:
A common assumption among those who reject ideas of afterlife and gods is that those dreams are merely memories happening
in your subconscious while you sleep.
Those who want to believe in a life after death often read more into such dreams.
Either way, dreaming of someone you've lost can be a powerful emotional impact, and if you miss those people, it can be a welcome and comforting experience.
In my experience, dreams, especially powerful dreams that linger after waking, are usually my own subconscious trying to tell me something. If I have a problem in life that I either ignore or don't know how to deal with, I've sometimes experienced that seemingly unrelated dreams put me in a mind frame where I can relate to and resolve these issues easier. Might be coincidental, though.
I do not know. All I know is that I like dreams and dreaming.
All of MY out-of-body experiences have been in a state of wakefullness,
most of them on-the-job in court, while actively engaged in taking testimony from witnesses, not sleeping.





David
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 11:17 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Cyracuz wrote:
There is no factual answer to your question in the headline.
Whatever the actual extant state of affairs is,
is the "factual answer."




Cyracuz wrote:
A common assumption among those who reject ideas of afterlife and gods is that those dreams are merely memories happening
in your subconscious while you sleep.
Those who want to believe in a life after death often read more into such dreams.
Either way, dreaming of someone you've lost can be a powerful emotional impact, and if you miss those people, it can be a welcome and comforting experience.
In my experience, dreams, especially powerful dreams that linger after waking, are usually my own subconscious trying to tell me something. If I have a problem in life that I either ignore or don't know how to deal with, I've sometimes experienced that seemingly unrelated dreams put me in a mind frame where I can relate to and resolve these issues easier. Might be coincidental, though.
I do not know. All I know is that I like dreams and dreaming.
All of MY out-of-body experiences have been in a state of wakefullness,
most of them on-the-job in court, while actively engaged in taking testimony from witnesses, not sleeping.





David


Or they could be an hallucinations -- depending on the emotion of the situation. MY OOB experience could have been one too
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 11:57 am
@Rickoshay75,
Cyracuz wrote:
There is no factual answer to your question in the headline.
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Whatever the actual extant state of affairs is,
is the "factual answer."



Cyracuz wrote:
A common assumption among those who reject ideas of afterlife and gods is that
those dreams are merely memories happening
in your subconscious while you sleep.
Those who want to believe in a life after death often read more into such dreams.
Either way, dreaming of someone you've lost can be a powerful emotional impact,
and if you miss those people, it can be a welcome and comforting experience.
In my experience, dreams, especially powerful dreams that linger after waking,
are usually my own subconscious trying to tell me something.
If I have a problem in life that I either ignore or don't know how to deal with,
I've sometimes experienced that seemingly unrelated dreams put me
in a mind frame where I can relate to and resolve these issues easier. Might be coincidental, though.
I do not know. All I know is that I like dreams and dreaming. ["Life is but a dream. Its what u make it."]
OmSigDAVID wrote:
All of MY out-of-body experiences have been in a state of wakefullness,
most of them on-the-job in court, while actively engaged
in taking testimony from witnesses, not sleeping.





David
Rickoshay75 wrote:
Or they could be an hallucinations -- depending on the emotion of the situation.
Only my second OOBE occurred in emotional circumstances.
The others occurred in tranquility.
In OOBE, I was alone, about to bite into
my lunch in a Friendly Ice Cream Restaurant.


Rickoshay75 wrote:
MY OOB experience could have been one too
There have been OOBEs that resulted from temporary death
of the human body, during surgery, when the decedent's consciousness
went out into the waiting room and saw his family there,
one of whose members was bad-mouthing decedent.
Accordingly, after he returned to human life,
the ex-decedent sought out his estate lawyer
and he disinherited the defaming relative.
Does that have a bearing upon the question
of hallucinations? or is all existence itself
a hallucination ?
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 12:19 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Cyracuz wrote:
There is no factual answer to your question in the headline.
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Whatever the actual extant state of affairs is,
is the "factual answer."



Cyracuz wrote:
A common assumption among those who reject ideas of afterlife and gods is that
those dreams are merely memories happening
in your subconscious while you sleep.
Those who want to believe in a life after death often read more into such dreams.
Either way, dreaming of someone you've lost can be a powerful emotional impact,
and if you miss those people, it can be a welcome and comforting experience.
In my experience, dreams, especially powerful dreams that linger after waking,
are usually my own subconscious trying to tell me something.
If I have a problem in life that I either ignore or don't know how to deal with,
I've sometimes experienced that seemingly unrelated dreams put me
in a mind frame where I can relate to and resolve these issues easier. Might be coincidental, though.
I do not know. All I know is that I like dreams and dreaming. ["Life is but a dream. Its what u make it."]
OmSigDAVID wrote:
All of MY out-of-body experiences have been in a state of wakefullness,
most of them on-the-job in court, while actively engaged
in taking testimony from witnesses, not sleeping.





David
Rickoshay75 wrote:
Or they could be an hallucinations -- depending on the emotion of the situation.
Only my second OOBE occurred in emotional circumstances.
The others occurred in tranquility.
In OOBE, I was alone, about to bite into
my lunch in a Friendly Ice Cream Restaurant.


Rickoshay75 wrote:
MY OOB experience could have been one too
There have been OOBEs that resulted from temporary death
of the human body, during surgery, when the decedent's consciousness
went out into the waiting room and saw his family there,
one of whose members was bad-mouthing decedent.
Accordingly, after he returned to human life,
the ex-decedent sought out his estate lawyer
and he disinherited the defaming relative.
Does that have a bearing upon the question
of hallucinations? or is all existence itself
a hallucination ?


I have no idea what causes hallucinations, no one does, but in my case it was real, really real.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 12:28 pm
@Rickoshay75,
"After life (soul), does it exist, is it real."

Nope.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 01:09 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

"After life (soul), does it exist, is it real."

Nope.


You know this because soul isn't logical, or is it just an expressed feeling?
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 01:34 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Rickoshay75 wrote:

Krumple wrote:

"After life (soul), does it exist, is it real."

Nope.


You know this because soul isn't logical, or is it just an expressed feeling?


Neither. There is absolutely nothing that supports it's existence to that of reality.

The concept arises from people who desperately want to hold onto the idea that their self will not stop upon the ceasing of their body.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 02:22 pm
@Krumple,
Rickoshay75 wrote:

Krumple wrote:

"After life (soul), does it exist, is it real."

Nope.


You know this because soul isn't logical, or is it just an expressed feeling?
Krumple wrote:
Neither. There is absolutely nothing that supports it's existence to that of reality.
That is factually false.
U pretend that the testimony of people
who have left their human bodies and returned thereto does not exist.
U take an ostrich approach and then, HAVING DONE SO, u assume
that absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
That is not scientifically logical.
It reminds me of those who deny the existence of our Moon landings.



Krumple wrote:
The concept arises from people who desperately want to hold onto the idea
that their self will not stop upon the ceasing of their body.
What evidence has led u to this conclusion ?
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 02:37 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

that absence of evidence is evidence of absence.


Yeah I know believers always try to promote this idea but actually it IS evidence. Just like if you don't find gremlin ****, more than likely there are no gremlins. The lack of evidence is evidence. The ONLY people who don't accept this as evidence are believers.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

That is not scientifically logical.
It reminds me of those who deny the existence of our Moon landings.


It is scientifically logical. Only YOU are saying it is not. There is evidence of the moon landings and anyone who thinks they didn't happen are complete morons, just like people who believe in ghosts, souls or gods thinking they are real, are morons.


Krumple wrote:
The concept arises from people who desperately want to hold onto the idea
that their self will not stop upon the ceasing of their body.


OmSigDAVID wrote:

What evidence has led u to this conclusion ?


It is not my job to prove that it does not exist. It is up to those who claim that it DOES exists to show proof that it can be found. It can't be found and no one has. The ONLY place a soul exists is in the imaginations of those who want to believe that it does with absolutely no good reason to.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 04:31 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

that absence of evidence is evidence of absence.


Yeah I know believers always try to promote this idea but actually it IS evidence. Just like if you don't find gremlin ****, more than likely there are no gremlins. The lack of evidence is evidence. The ONLY people who don't accept this as evidence are believers.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

That is not scientifically logical.
It reminds me of those who deny the existence of our Moon landings.


It is scientifically logical. Only YOU are saying it is not. There is evidence of the moon landings and anyone who thinks they didn't happen are complete morons, just like people who believe in ghosts, souls or gods thinking they are real, are morons.


Krumple wrote:
The concept arises from people who desperately want to hold onto the idea
that their self will not stop upon the ceasing of their body.


OmSigDAVID wrote:

What evidence has led u to this conclusion ?


It is not my job to prove that it does not exist. It is up to those who claim that it DOES exists to show proof that it can be found. It can't be found and no one has. The ONLY place a soul exists is in the imaginations of those who want to believe that it does with absolutely no good reason to.


You're right, of course, but millions of people fervently believe there is a soul and it's cruel to disillusion them.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2012 08:37 am
@Krumple,


Krumple wrote:
The concept arises from people who desperately want to hold onto the idea
that their self will not stop upon the ceasing of their body.

OmSigDAVID wrote:
What evidence has led u to this conclusion ?
Krumple wrote:
It is not my job to prove that it does not exist.
It is up to those who claim that it DOES exists to show proof that it can be found.
That 'd be true, IF I were trying to convince u
of something. I am not.
Its not my job to convince u of anything, but I STILL have my freedom of speech intact.

If u support my observations with unlimited fanaticism, that helps me not in the least,
any more than if u reject the information that I have been to Phoenix, Arizona.
The fact remains unaffected by your belief.




Krumple wrote:
It can't be found and no one has.
The ONLY place a soul exists is in the imaginations of those who want to believe
that it does with absolutely no good reason to.
I have had multiple out-of-body experiences,
tho not since the 1980s. From those, I know that the real me
is not my human body, tho I continue to use it.
My "good reason to" believe is my personal experience; I refuse to be a hypocrit.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2012 08:49 am
@Rickoshay75,
Rickoshay75 wrote:
You're right, of course, but millions of people fervently believe there is a soul
and it's cruel to disillusion them.
There is no reason to be "fervent" about it, as u put it,
but it remains factually the truth. The soul is your consciousness
that leaves your human body when u have out-of-body experiences,
either prior to death of the human body, or after the death of the human body.





David
0 Replies
 
beyondme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 06:39 pm
@Cyracuz,
I have had 2 experiences that could be viewed as life outside th body. The first time was when |I was about 32. I was a drug addict on the street in terrible physical emotional shape. I had been awake fro 4 daqys I think and I had taken just over 1/2 gram of heroin. My plan was to die because of my miserable life. The second last thing I remember was in an alleyway having just taken the down intervenously. The next time I was in St. pauls hospital looking down at myself from what seemed close to the ceiling. I remember thinking that I was finshed this journey on earth and I felt so at peace. It wasn't like a feeling, more just a sense of a journey over. I saw 3 nurses and a Doctor working on my body. I can't remember what they said just they were frantic. What seemed like a long time and suddenly I felt my body again and great pain. I in that momment had no fear of death and suddenly realized thjat we do go beyond. I didn't see any flashing lights, no ghostly apperations or nothing like that. But I do believe I was in that momment beyond this human experience. And another experience that was more haunting
 

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