11,000 Clergy Abuse Claims Filed

Illegalise the Catholic Church.

Phoenix, you are doubtless right.

Stopping it? Wish I knew.

People speaking out is an obvious beginning.

Teaching kids not to have unquestioning obedience to clergy.

Clergy not being alone with kids, except in very controlled environments, I guess, like the confessional? Normal length private discussions - for pastoral work, I suppose you would call it - in areas where others are around - much as any sensible non-clerical counsellor does - ie not seeing kids alone after hours and maintaining strict personal boundaries (eg I almost never touch kids at all - or any client, in any way, except handshake eg - never blurring personal and professional relationships - maintaining proper reticence about personal matters - and so on and on)

Encouraging parents to be alert for signs of "special relationships" - churches to be alert for any signs of unprofessional conduct (it often ain't all that bloody hard when you know the signs to look for you know).

Yikes! I dunno!

I think that the above is very important. Over the years, kids have been socialized to believe that anything the clergy did was "good", and that they had to respect and obey them.

If this happens to any extent, I think that it will completly change the relationship between the church and its parishoners. Part of the problem for the kids was that the church demanded unquestioning obedience, which left the abused children frightened and confused, as well as abused.

Personally, I believe that a married clergy would not remove, but would ameliorate the problem. The church would then have a larger pool of applicants, and could pick and choose, thereby rejecting those whose psychological makeup was not appropriate for working with children.

I agree. I'm always very saddened when things like this happen to children, and triply so when it comes from the Church.

I have no idea how to go about stopping these things from happening. I think the bottom line is that you just NEVER know people. If a Father can do it to his own biological children (both male & female) how much more for a stranger knowing he's got the confidences of a child?

Castration is too good for people who stoop to this level.

Mankind is always seeking cures for infectious diseases. Isn't it time they discovered one for the most dangerous infection of all. "Religion"

au- I can't blame it on religion. I blame it on the people who use the mantle of religion, and their own positions, to abuse children.

Phoenix32890
My comment was regarding religion in general. This is just another nail for religions coffin. I find it very difficult if not imposible to find and redeeming qualities in religion. The evil by far out weighs the the good.

I had a dicussion with a Priest about 2 years ago and he thought it starts when young me are recruited in to the fold - they totally mishandle and shove the sex thing in a closet.

No training - no education on handling sexual desire or wanting.

Perhaps. But it is my belief that it takes a certain sort of person to want to have sex with little children. For instance, a disgusting f***ed in the head sort of person.

I totally agree Mong...

The Bible says it would be better if a millstone were tied to their neck and that they should be cast into the sea.



But castration works. :-)

when my mother died, the person who kept me from killing myself was one of our parish priests. He and I became "pals," and it was thanks to his encouragement and understanding that I survived to be the irreligious snot that I am today!
The "special relationship" thing is to some extent the way many priests were taught to counsel. I think the answer may be better screening of seminary applicants. Does anyone know if there are statistics comparing offense rates among priests who were ordained later in life vs. "traditional" seminarians? I would think that those who chose the priesthood later, after experiencing life, would be less likely to offend.

Is it the religion that warped the priest's minds or the lack of sex? Or a combination?

Yep, I know Hobitbob - there is a sort of jargon in my trade, which I have used jargonistically here - (and also in the sense in which the church used it in nunneries and seminaries and monasteries - there it is code for a relationship which is becoming an "in love" or "in lust" sort of relationship) - I am sorry.

"Special" is a sort of code for a relationship which is breaking professional boundaries, often in subtle ways - but slippery slope is a real and dangerous thing in such matters. It does not preclude real care.

Actually, the sad thing is, that such close relationships can also be very healing and wonderful if they do NOT break the important boundaries - if they are more parental, say - and I am sure they have been a strength of the church. This is why I become very distressed at the hatred and vilification of the church spewed by so many here and elsewhere - it is a sort of "burn the witch" mentality which I feel smacks of projection, frankly.

It is foolish to be blind to the many goodnesses of the Catholic and other churches - the compassion and humaneness that was and is so evident, as well as the evils.

That is why it is so hard to think of protective factors - it is so easy to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Individual- I would tend to think that in certain cases, some men who are attracted to a celibate life may be dealing with psychosexual difficulties of which he may not really comprehend.

Has anyone noted the fact that the Catholic church allows many of it's priests in Africa to be married? Do they make this exception in the belief that it extends their influence where they would otherwise have none?

The kind of specialness I mean is when the needs of the counsellor become confused with or take precedence over the needs of the counselled. Just a clarification.

The same with parents, really...that is the essence of bad parenting.

I do not know if it is the celibacy thing - or how relevant that is - maybe it is. I cannot really understand that - perhaps not grasp it as a corrupting force. I mean that I am a very sexual being - (getting personal here - but I have a point!) - but, if no appropriate object for such feelings is around, there is no problem dealing with them - they do not spill over onto clients or what have you - I therefore find it hard to understand how they do, I guess.

I am more able to really understand how power begins to be abused....and I suppose that is a precursor to sexual abuse, that movement into acceptance and pleasure in power over beings.

IF it is true that the catholic church folk have been responsible for more sexual abuse than the non-celibate clergy churches - and I think that is far from clear yet - I suppose we must begin to think about the obvious - celibacy - and the relative degrees of power - and, perhaps, whether the nature of male sexuality, especially if a man comes to manhood in the very odd conditions of a seminary - that presents inherent risk, and requires supports being in place to help in its management, in the powerful and often intimate circumstances in which priests are placed.

I hesitate to even mention such a thing - and consider the thought horrible - but it has been frankly discussed with a number of men I am close to - who raised it, rather than being insulted. I really do not know - and sexual abuse by women is not unknown, and we may find there is more of it than we realise.

But, for people who really believe in the special role of priesthood/ministry - I mean the sacred role assigned to it by Jesus or Paul or whoever - how to protect the innocent while maintaining the reverence - oy veh! How to do that. Of course, we atheists and agnostics find it hard to see the importance of the clergy in christian minds, I suppose, in theological terms - as opposed, say, to the role of the Rabbi in Jewish theology - I have forgotten the terms which explain the difference in roles...and I am rambling....

I don't have a link (sorry) but yesterday's Boston Globe said about 4% of all US priests are currently involved in pedophilia investigations.

Of course some of them will be found innocent. But man, what a stat. Sad, truly sad and disturbing.