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DEBASING THE CURRENCY OF LANGUAGE

 
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 01:36 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
The dumbing down comes not from those people adding nuance to language.
Thanks for the response JTT but some of us conservative in the realm might disagree

Quote:
The dumbing down of language is exactly what this thread is.
Forgive me JTT but aren’t you setting yourself above

Quote:
These new words that people are whining about are done deals.
I fear you’re right about that

Quote:
A word or phrase doesn't have to get into a dictionary for it to be part of language. Dictionaries are not updated daily.
You’re right about that too. However I regret Miriam having abandoned the practice labeling such a newcomer “vul.”

Setting myself above: The eventual result of vulgarization will be that all words will have so lost specific meaning any sentence whatever can be interpreted to mean anything at all. The language is thus deteriorating horribly
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 01:43 pm
@dalehileman,
Quote:
The language is thus deteriorating horribly


A point which I have made re the massive expansion in the meaning of particular words, such as "rape". There seems to be no concern of the degradation of the language on the part of the elites....so long as their political aspirations are met they seem happy to take part in the ruining the utility of language.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 02:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
.so long as their political aspirations are met
Goes beyond the political into the very nagture of the humanoid personality so convinced of its own logical absolutes
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 02:08 pm
@dalehileman,
Quote:
Goes beyond the political into the very nagture of the humanoid personality so convinced of its own logical absolutes


as well as the righteousness of imposing ones will upon others, through manipulation if need be......dishonest use of language is a tool that often works, so what if language suffers as a result.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 02:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Jesus you're full of ****.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 02:26 pm
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

“Literally" to mean “figuratively”

“Hopefully” as a whole-sentence modifier

“Convince” to mean “persuade"




Heard at work: "It was so cold this morning I literally froze to death waiting for the bus!" (I'd have been OK with "nearly" or "practically"). I think saying that a joke "kills" the listener is hallowed by its antiquity.

I don't have a problem with "hopefully", really. Hopefully the work will be done by Friday I can live with, or even the work will be done, hopefully, by Friday but not the work will be done hopefully by Friday. You often see in UK offerings that someone sadly died.

Convinced meaning persuade: NO!


Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 02:57 pm
@contrex,
contrex wrote:
I don't have a problem with "hopefully", really. Hopefully the work will be done by Friday I can live with, or even the work will be done, hopefully, by Friday but not the work will be done hopefully by Friday. You often see in UK offerings that someone sadly died.


I agree. The problem here isn't the use of the word but the unfortunate placement of it.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 04:57 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
The Hohenzollerns originally came from Franconia, Bavaria, Austria

I'll take your word for it, but the branch that ended up governing Germany had their home base in Württemberg, a smallish princedom in the South-West of Germany. Here's a view of their medieval castle, Burg Hohenzollern.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Burg_Hohenzollern_ak.jpg/800px-Burg_Hohenzollern_ak.jpg
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 05:06 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Jesus you're full of ****.


Any more so than you, Set? What is different about Hawk's argument than yours? He's correct in that the meaning of 'rape' has been expanded. You have the same bee in your bonnet as him.

Maybe you kinda missed that.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 05:12 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
The problem here isn't the use of the word but the unfortunate placement of it.


The placement of the two is identical, M.

The problem actually is the original nonsensical prescription against 'hopefully'.

Ever notice how all these little hobgoblins are the same?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 05:15 pm
@Thomas,
If you look at their family tree, they came from all over hell's half acre. But my favorite when it comes to castles was Mad King Ludwig--that boy had more money than sense.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Neuschwanstein_Castle_LOC_print.jpg/800px-Neuschwanstein_Castle_LOC_print.jpg

How the hell do you heat that place in the winter ? ! ? ! ?

http://www.thermorocks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/16neuschwanstein_1.jpg

https://www.tompgalvin.com/places/de/bayern/photos/linderhof_01.jpg

http://english2.mnsu.edu/larsson/gr%20images/herren.jpg

contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 05:27 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
The placement of the two is identical, M.


One is enclosed by parenthetical commas.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 08:55 pm
@contrex,
Quote:
Heard at work: "It was so cold this morning I literally froze to death waiting for the bus!" (I'd have been OK with "nearly" or "practically").


Gee, C, all one has to do is check a dictionary to find out that this is a perfectly natural collocation.

======

OED

- informal used for emphasis while not being literally true: I have received literally thousands of letters

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/literally?view=uk

===============
Usage Note:
For more than a hundred years, critics have remarked on the incoherency of using literally in a way that suggests the exact opposite of its primary sense of "in a manner that accords with the literal sense of the words." In 1926, for example, H.W. Fowler cited the example "The 300,000 Unionists ... will be literally thrown to the wolves." The practice does not stem from a change in the meaning of literally itself - if it did, the word would long since have come to mean "virtually" or "figuratively"but from a natural tendency to use the word as a general intensive, as in They had literally no help from the government on the project, where no contrast with the figurative sense of the words is intended.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/literally

==========================

Quote:
I think saying that a joke "kills" the listener is hallowed by its antiquity.


English never makes use of exaggeration to add emphasis - yeah, right!

These silly prescriptions are perpetuated by folks like you who simply aren't willing to do a modicum of research.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 09:17 pm
@dalehileman,
Quote:
Thanks for the response JTT but some of us conservative in the realm might disagree


I fail to see why disagreement from conservatives would mean anything to how language works, D. Conservatives don't write the rules for language.

Quote:
Forgive me JTT but aren’t you setting yourself above


Not at all. I'm simply describing reality. Language doesn't work according to the erroneous opinions of a group of people who are simply repeating other people's erroneous opinions.

Quote:
Setting myself above: The eventual result of vulgarization will be that all words will have so lost specific meaning any sentence whatever can be interpreted to mean anything at all.


That's simply false, D. Look at any dictionary. Many words have multiple meanings. Look at 'get' - it has numerous meanings and no native speaker ever gets confused. Just one example - 'get outta here' can mean, "physically leave my presence" and "that's unbelievable"/no way!/...

'yeah, right' has two separate and opposite meanings. Language is full of these and we never get confused by them.

Quote:
The language is thus deteriorating horribly


That's been a common complaint for centuries from those who mistakenly think that they are doing something to save language by repeating others old canards.

Language is self perpetuating and self correcting. The only ones who make the rules for language are the speakers of a language. Since it must be used to describe an infinity of things and events, certain new items will sound strange but the vast majority of these complaints are old complaints, recycled by unthinking prescriptivists.

You might find this article instructive. Here's a short excerpt from it.

Quote:
But while it is understandable that speakers of a language with a literary tradition would tend to be pessimistic about its course, there is no more hard evidence for a general linguistic degeneration than there is reason to believe that Aaron and Rose are inferior to Ruth and Gehrig.

Most of my fellow linguists, in fact, would say that it is absurd even to talk about a language changing for the better or the worse. When you have the historical picture before you, and can see how Indo-European gradually slipped into Germanic, Germanic into Anglo-Saxon, and Anglo-Saxon into the English of Chaucer, then Shakespeare, and then Henry James, the process of linguistic change seems as ineluctable and impersonal as continental drift. From this Olympian point of view, not even the Norman invasion had much of an effect on the structure of the language, and all the tirades of all the grammarians since the Renaissance sound like the prattlings of landscape gardeners who hope by frantic efforts to keep Alaska from bumping into Asia.

http://www.pbs.org/speak/speech/correct/decline/



0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 09:52 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
If you only have one of something, how can it be an icon?


I have a bunch of one things on my desktop and they are all icons.

Quote:
An announcer would be talking about someone's first album, describing it as "iconic." Excuse me? If you only have one of something, how can it be an icon?


I guess that you would have to understand the various meanings of icon/iconic. You obviously do not, Set.

Note definition 3, below,

3. One who is the object of great attention and devotion; an idol: "He is ... a pop icon designed and manufactured for the video generation" (Harry F. Waters).

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/icon

Quote:
How can it be the representative sample of someone's art, it it's the only sample out there?


It doesn't have to be a representative sample of one person's art. The comparison can be to the same art/genre of others.

The following definition of 'iconic', from the link found below describes the very scenario you have described.

iconic
very famous and well known, and believed to represent a particular idea

His photographs have become iconic images of war.

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/iconic

0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 10:13 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:


https://www.tompgalvin.com/places/de/bayern/photos/linderhof_01.jpg



Hey, I had a tour of that place circa 1967.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 11:03 pm
@roger,
I don't suppose you got a swim.. or a wade.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 May, 2012 11:23 pm
A2K is still the only place real or virtual where I have ever seen folk get lathered up over language.

Love. It.
contrex
 
  4  
Reply Sun 27 May, 2012 12:08 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:


Gee, C, all one has to do is check a dictionary to find out that this is a perfectly natural collocation.

These silly prescriptions are perpetuated by folks like you who simply aren't willing to do a modicum of research.


I only said I didn't like these usages, not that people shouldn't employ them (how could I stop them?) You really are a spaz, aren't you? (Is it Assbergers?) Some knd of mental/neuro issue. Only a nut could simultaneously fulminate against "silly prescriptions" and haul out the OED as an authority.
Lustig Andrei
 
  3  
Reply Sun 27 May, 2012 12:43 am
@contrex,
contrex wrote:
Only a nut could simultaneously fulminate against "silly prescriptions" and haul out the OED as an authority.


Amen.
0 Replies
 
 

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