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WHAT MADE YOU GRIMACE & GRIT YOUR TEETH TODAY?

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 05:20 pm
@dlowan,
Well that (above) was the bad news.

Now here's the good news: Ya Know Deb, how bad luck comes in threes?
Well you've knocked all your bad luck over in a mere few days! (Counting: the mobile, the work stuff-up & the ex's new girlfriend) .... Gosh, that was clever of you!

So this means the coast in now clear!

ONLY GOOD LUCK from here on!

Enjoy!

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 07:23 pm
@msolga,
Sadly, no.

Oh what a bundle of groans am I!

Just took Miranda to vet to get her shots......she wasn't well enough to get them....I have left her there to get re-hydrated. Likely kidneys (which she is being treated for). She has been too quiet the last couple of days.

I'm in that "how far do I go with intervention" time.

I don't want all kinds of painful stuff like injections and drips and all that, only to have a dead cat anyway in a couple of weeks, whose life was miserably prolonged when I should have let her go earlier and without all that crap.

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 11:50 pm
@dlowan,
Oh Deb, I'm so terribly sorry this is happening.

I have been there, done that, with a number of my own beloved cats.

Quote:
I don't want all kinds of painful stuff like injections and drips and all that, only to have a dead cat anyway in a couple of weeks, whose life was miserably prolonged when I should have let her go earlier and without all that crap.


I understand. Absolutely! You are absolutely right in your thinking.

I have worked with vets who have been of the "keep them alive at any cost" ilk ...
And have greatly regretted what happened to the poor, sick cat/s involved, in the process.

But I think you know what is the right thing in the circumstances. And only you (& the vet) know & can see the full situation, right in front of your eyes ...

If you have to make a decision, Deb, I know (absolutely!) it will be the right one.

(You can email me, Deb, if you want to talk about this any further ..... this is very difficult stuff. I know, I know .... Sad )




0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 11:58 pm
@dlowan,
Deb, you can phone me if you want to discuss, talk about what's happening. I'm in the phone directory. You know my surname, I think?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 02:02 am
@dlowan,
I won't say anything to this but that I understand you.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 02:07 am
@ossobuco,
Snort, that was about the work thing.



On the cat, I'm mostly for getting it over with, she says, bravely, with no cat at her arm.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 02:21 am
@ossobuco,
Well, that sounded cold, what I said.

This whole thing is purgatorio. My view is just that later is worse or worst, all of it hell.

I'm still crying re the Pacc, so pay no attention to any lightweight comments by me.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 04:00 am
@ossobuco,
I'll not let her hang around suffering, so don't worry Osso.

I've given her a few days off from injections and ****...blood test on the 29th....if it's showing her kidneys not responding to treatment....then we'll do it when I find out (likely the 30th.)
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 07:27 am
@dlowan,
Ack dlowan...

What a bundle of stuff to deal with at once... I'm sorry.

Hope Miranda's kidneys respond to treatment.
Roberta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 08:37 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:


Hope Miranda's kidneys respond to treatment.


Me too.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 04:34 pm
@Roberta,
Me three.
margo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 07:23 pm
****! Deb

What next?

Poor bloody little Miranda.

Fingers crossed.

Re the mobile phone - as you didn't know the number...how did you report it lost? Twisted Evil
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 07:33 pm
@dlowan,
Me too.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 08:13 pm
@margo,
margo wrote:

****! Deb

What next?

Poor bloody little Miranda.

Fingers crossed.

Re the mobile phone - as you didn't know the number...how did you report it lost? Twisted Evil


It's on the bill.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 09:35 pm
@dlowan,
Quote:
I don't want all kinds of painful stuff like injections and drips and all that, only to have a dead cat anyway in a couple of weeks, whose life was miserably prolonged when I should have let her go earlier and without all that crap.


Can I just say, whether talking about people or animals, abortion, death penalty, euthanasia, whatever -- I think there's a natural tendency to place to much emphasis on the very beginnings and the very endings of lives and neglect the quality of the immense stretch in between the two. You've given her lots of good time before now -- you've got a right for her to go through some bad time if you think she's got a chance to come through it, if that's the right decision for you.

My heart goes out to you. I deal with it every day, but when it's your own it's plain awful. Ear scratches to Miranda, gin and tonic to you...
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 12:40 am
@patiodog,
Yeah...that's the nubbin....

"if you think she's got a chance to come through it"


My experience (and that of friends with whom I discuss it) seems often to be that the decision gets made a bit too late, rather than a bit too early....with the mega-vet practices, and with people who cannot let go, and will/can pay thousands, IMHO, frequently extending an animal's life in misery for WAAAAY too long. I had one poor cat who some vets made a mint out of treating uselessly, until I found the one I stuck with until he retired recently, who said simply that the infection (chronic, in left sinus) was untreatable, and that the cat was suffering and the thing was deforming her bony structures. He said that the only treatment he could do that might fix it (some form of burning it out, I think) was one that he found, in cats, was cruel and ineffective. We ended it that day...this was in the seventies, btw...so I am sure things might be different today.

But..I am also aware of the balancing act you did with your beloved old dog, where treatment DID give him some real extra good time. I have just read a book, as it happens, by a British veterinary surgeon specialist who practices in the USA, discussing exactly these sorts of issues. 'Twas fascinating.

In my experience, kidneys is it, and the drugs I have been given in the past have done sweet **** all. Are there new kidney drugs that actually do something? This vet seems to think so. Human drugs improve, so I guess animal ones do too, eh?

Actually, the vet phoned earlier today to see how Miranda was doing...and we talked a bit about this. She said that the minute she thought Miranda was suffering she would advocate euthanasia, unless the blood tests come back with something treatable...(she also had a higher than usual white blood cell count, which the vet thought due to the stress of her illness at the time...but I guess she's wondering about some form of cancer also now.)

She thinks it's worth giving her a chance....and I am doing this for the next few days...especially as I am on leave and can give her lots of love and cuddles.

Thing is, I have fallen for the chance thing before, and, on one occasion, it meant one of my cats who I thought was clearly dying, died in a damn cage in the vet's, on a damn drip. My animals die in my arms, thank you very much. Other times, I think it just extended their life into misery. Not for long, I won't allow that, but for a few days too long. Cats are such damn stoical little critters! (As are dogs as I recall). The cat I let die in the vet's, who suddenly became dramatically ill, (had a bowel stoppage, as we discovered) had appeared perfectly fit until the morning of her death, when she suddenly was vomiting stuff where YOU know what it was, and only able to stagger, purred and smiled happily at me and smooched all the way to the vet's, was friendly and gracious to the vet and the assistants, and never gave a sign of what must have been terrible pain and illness.

I am actually pretty rational and philosophical about it all.......I have no idea how many animals I have had since I was a toddler, wild and domestic (people used to bring me injured critters they found), but the deal generally is they die way before you, and that is that. I don't deal with it every day, but I have dealt with it a LOT, and with humans too.

How does it affect you? Big part of a vet's life.

I get really sad and cry a lot and all that, but it's part and parcel of the decision to care about animals (and humans) and enjoy their presence in your life, so I don't get hysterical or anything.

Miranda is stretched out in the sun at her window right now.
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 07:26 am
my ******* inconsiderate dumb ass neighbors.

******* 5:30 in the god damn morning, he has his car stereo BLASTING enough to vibrate this buildings windows.

Oh. god. help me............... I dont go kill that little mexican man myself.
Im going to skin him alive and turn him into chorizo for dogs...

GRRRR
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 05:38 pm
@dlowan,
Quote:
In my experience, kidneys is it, and the drugs I have been given in the past have done sweet **** all. Are there new kidney drugs that actually do something? This vet seems to think so. Human drugs improve, so I guess animal ones do too, eh?


Depends on what the drugs are. The newest step I was aware of was using ACE-inhibitors to maintain perfusion of the kidney. If there's a newer and better advancement, I don't know of it, and it's certainly not something we use in the shelter. Depends also on how much kidney function is lost. When you lose functional units, they're gone for good, but the remaining units do have the capability of beefing up their productivity, so that the net loss of function under normal conditions is minimal.

The problem with cats is that they're desert animals, and are generally inclined to get by on as little water as they can. For a cat with no reserve kidney capacity and who doesn't concentrate urine very well, this can lead to dehydration, which leads to decreased blood flow to the kidney, which leads to more loss of functional units.

The problem with a cat in renal crisis is that you don't really know if they're going to regain capacity or not, and this change is a SLOW one.

Of course, since every crisis the cat has reduces its kidney capacity, the likelihood of a functional recovery decreases each time, and it's really not a question of if the cat is going to finally succumb, but when. In the situation I work in, signs of kidney failure pretty much mean a quick euthanasia -- but we can't afford any of the drugs that kidney cats are usually on, we can't keep an animal on IV fluids, and we don't place enough cats to justify these measures even if we could manage it.

When it comes to it, though, I'm sure you've got good instincts on this matter, and in my admittedly rather limited experience with cats in critical care for renal failure (excuse me, kidney disease; "failure" is a pejorative term and is no longer favored) -- I've overseen maybe 4 or 5 cases and kept an eye on a dozen or 15 more -- cats who don't improve significantly after 24 hours on IV fluids aren't likely make a good turnaround.

I have seen several kidney transplants performed successfully in cats, but I've got some ethical problems with this (cats don't generally sign consent forms to donate organs) and the whole process is molto expensive.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 06:09 pm
@patiodog,
Yep...she's on a second generation ace inhibitor...(benazapril hydrochloride).

We shall see what we shall see.

She went 20 rounds with me last night trying to get it down her, so there's some fight left.

Not that I want that to be a major feature of the last however many days/weeks of comfortable life left to her.

NEVER had any problem getting pills down ANY animal before. I am brought in to medicate friends' animals fer crissake.

This cat is the most determined li'l smegger, oz for oz, I have ever had.


Kidney transplants? Oh for pete's sake.

0 Replies
 
margo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2008 04:32 pm
listening here, Deb.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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