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How many Germans live in Chile and Argentina? How many Welsh?

 
 
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2002 07:32 pm
How many Germans live in Chile and Argentina? How many Welsh live in Argentina? Anybody know? I just know there are 'many.' c.i.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 39,587 • Replies: 62
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Nov, 2002 01:32 pm
According to the 1991 census in Argentina, there were 15, 451 Germans living in that country (down from 24,381 in 1980). They have no data for the 2001 census. Welsh must be negligible, are put among "others".

76 German citizens were "dissappeared" by the military dictators who ruled the country in the seventies - early eighties.

Could not find data on Chile.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2002 09:08 pm
fbaezer, It's interesting that the census of Germans in Chile is difficult to find. Not only did we see many Germans in Chile, but many of the tour guides in Chile are Germans. I've contacted several German tour guides for Chile through the internet. I wonder if Chile keeps a census by race or nationality? c.i.
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2002 11:34 am
I don't think the Chilean authorities are trying to hide the number of German nationals living in the country.
I don't think Chile keeps a census by race. To do that would be considered racist in most Latin American cultures. But all census that I know of count the number of foreigners.

Hiding the number of Germans would have been logical during the Pinochet regime, when there was a concentration camp, Colonia Libertad, run by German inmigrants, in which several opposers were tortured and killed.
If I remember well, the founder and leader of Colonia Libertad is in prison now.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2002 01:35 pm
Some information can be found here:

German Genealogy: Chile

Re. keeping a census by race: this is thought to be racist in most European countries as well. Foreigners are noted.

The German Nazi Schaeffer was head of "Colonia Dignidad":

About Colonia Dignidad
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2002 01:43 pm
That's right, Walter, Colonia Dignidad.

Perhaps I was thinking in the "arbeit macht frei" motto.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2002 03:15 pm
Walter, We can always depend on you to provide the historical facts of our discussions, and I for one am very grateful. The link you provided answered many questions for me concerning the Germans in Chile - especially in Puerto Montt. It even mentioned the Italians in Buenos Aires. There's a section in Buenos Aires called "La Boca" where the Italians have settled. It's now somewhat of a 'tourist trap' kind of place with colorful buildings, souvenir shops, and the arts and crafts. Thanks again for providing the informative link to Chile. c.i.
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2002 03:41 pm
Well, Argentina and Uruguay have enormous Italian settlements. Certainly more than half of the Argentinians and Uruguayans have Italian ancestors. The Spanish spoken in both countries has a little Italian accent.

During the 1990 World Cup in Italy, there were some racist sheets against Argentina (the Argentinians had beaten and eliminated the locals by a combination of luck and genius): "Argentini, razza di merda", it said ("sh*t race").
An Italian newspaper, very elegantly, put the last names of the Argentinian team players: "These are the last names of the so-called 'razza di merda': Pumpido, Giusti, Trebbiano, Ruggieri, Cucciufo, Battista, Maradona, Valdano". 8 out of 11 players had Italian last names. The racists were spitting to the sky.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2002 05:15 pm
fbaezer, Isn't it interesting to see this kind of racism on the basis of a game? c.i.
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2002 05:19 pm
Sports breed Nationalism.
I think it's fun if you don't take too seriously.

The problem with vandals ("hooligans" in England) is that they take their Nationalism (or Localism) seriously (it's the only alternative to total existential frustration for many) into extremes.
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PacoElPicadillo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 12:33 pm
fbaezer wrote:
Well, Argentina and Uruguay have enormous Italian settlements. Certainly more than half of the Argentinians and Uruguayans have Italian ancestors. The Spanish spoken in both countries has a little Italian accent.

During the 1990 World Cup in Italy, there were some racist sheets against Argentina (the Argentinians had beaten and eliminated the locals by a combination of luck and genius): "Argentini, razza di merda", it said ("sh*t race").
An Italian newspaper, very elegantly, put the last names of the Argentinian team players: "These are the last names of the so-called 'razza di merda': Pumpido, Giusti, Trebbiano, Ruggieri, Cucciufo, Battista, Maradona, Valdano". 8 out of 11 players had Italian last names. The racists were spitting to the sky.

Hey, I´ve to complain: Pumpido, the goalkeeper, is not italian but from Galicia, in Spain. I remember that match by the tv, was like a thriller, and looking at Maradona´s lips when the italians insulted to argentine hymn before the beginning of the match...ha! I wasn´t bored. BTW, many of those argentine players, italian origins or not, were playing in italians clubs, and Italia won the world cup of 1938 with many italians born in southamerica. Italians know who are argentines, but football is football, as Boskov´d say, this is: the most important of all. In a football match, players are insulting each others about race, religion, the mothers and the wifes, and other ugly words, but after the match all is forgotten. It´s true that many ultra-right groups seek in football clubs a place for meeting themselves and making propaganda, but this is not football. Argentines are sinners too, and in some kind they have, or had?, a feeling of superiority over others southamericans countries.
And about describing the race in documents, well, this is characteristic of USA. USA has many good things, but has a lot of bad things, and racial questions is one of them. In SouthAmerica is true that being white can make your life a bit more easy, but not in the sense of USA. The most important in SAmerica is being rich, but really in SouthAmerica aren´t hard prejudices about getting married with people of others races, and every year southamericans are more mixed and it´s not a problem, but the contrary.
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 01:01 pm
Paco, bienvenido a able2know Smile

Pumpido may be a Galician last name, but the goalkeeper is from Italian descent. Remember: Alberto Neri Pumpido. Neri is an Italian last name.

On the other hand, I totally agree with you about race obsession in the US. As far as I know the only South American country that had some sort of race classification was Perú, at least until the '80s (but not at birth; whites, mestizos, indians, black and mulattos classified themselves as such at the moment of having their adult identity card or military service card issued).
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PacoElPicadillo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 12:12 pm
Fbaezer, I don´t know if today Pumpido has any relative in Italy, but he played a couple of years in Spain and I can tell you he visited his cousins and uncles in Galicia. And, in Spain we love the Soccer WorldCup, but the the WorldCup don´t love us Crying or Very sad , then, we´ve to grasp every gramme of soccer glory. For heavens sake! Pumpido is from us, not from italians! Very Happy
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 11:31 am
Vale, Paco, aceptemos que Pumpido es gallego.

As for the World Cup, it had so many pretenders, but accepts only 3 fianceés (Argentina, Italy and Germany) and has only a one true love (Brazil).
It's so unfair. I know you, and I, and many others would be happy even with a one-night-stand (the English still remember the one they had, with a little help of a referee friend).
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BillyFalcon
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2003 08:58 pm
The "hello" "goodbye" greeting in Buenos Aires is "Ciao"

Decades ago, I read an article in the NYT that discussed the culture of the Good Air city. It ended, to my best recollection, with ----An Argentinean is an
Italian who speaks Spanish and wishes he were English.
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 12:08 pm
And that's the big Argentinian trauma.
They were taught that they were Europeans living in the Americas by a twist of destiny.
They aren't.
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BillyFalcon
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jul, 2003 09:22 pm
The same NYT article said that in most countries in the Americas, land owners managed their lands, cattle. etc. all week long and then went to big city to party, relax, shop, whatever. The writeer then said that landowners in ARgentina reversed the custom. They went to the big city all week -- Monday through Friday tlo party, etc. and then went home for the weekend to recuperate.

In 1913, Argentina had the 7th largest economy in the world. This was a result of natural resources that were shipped abroad to be made into finished products. Leather hides and marble stone are what I recall.

You might say they were laid back.
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jul, 2003 11:15 am
On of the historic problems of Argentina is the absence of land reform.
Big landowners -largely beef exporters- have historically pressed against change, in an unholy alliance with the military.
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maliagar
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2003 08:16 pm
For "goodbye", also in Colombia, Peru, Chile, Uruguay... Brazil? and other South American nations. And, of course, in its Castillian version: "Chao".

BillyFalcon wrote:
The "hello" "goodbye" greeting in Buenos Aires is "Ciao".
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2003 01:07 am
Quite interesting: in Europe, "ciao" is only used by Italians or those, trying to speak Italian. (My Castillian neighbour thinks, 'Chao' - Spanish teacher at the local "MBA-school" - must be English.)
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