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Al Qaida gunman under siege in Toulouse

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 03:56 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Now, Patrice Muamba I hadn't heard of!


Patrice Muamba was a refugee who fled what was then Zaire when he was 11. He went on to become a premiership footballer, playing for Bolton Wanderers. On Saturday during the FA Cup match against Tottenham Hotspurs he suffered a cardiac arrest. He is only 23.

This story has united concern across the footballing world, as by all accounts Muamba was a very decent human being. There's also talk about elite sports health screening.

It's big news in the UK, but I wouldn't expect it to be big anywhere else.

An Al Qaida attack is something that affects us all, it could inspire attacks elsewhere, and shows what tactics are most effective.

Considering the seige is ongoing, and the gunman has claimed to want 'martyrdom,' the successful resolution is something that should interest us all.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 05:20 am
Washington Post is reporting an unnamed police source saying the standoff is over and the gunman is dead

French school shooting suspect reported dead after intense standoff

A young Islamic militant accused of a spree of point-blank assassinations in southwestern France is dead, French television stations reported Thursday, citing unnamed police sources. Mohammed Merah had been in a standoff with anti-terror police at a Toulouse apartment building for more than 30 hours.


Read more at:
http://wpo.st/BPE5

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 05:22 am
@djjd62,
From the BBC.

Quote:
A police siege in the French city of Toulouse has ended with a man suspected of killing seven people now dead, the French interior minister has said.

Police had entered the flat where Mohammed Merah was holed up shortly after 09:30, after a siege that had lasted more than a day.

Three officers were reported wounded in the final assault.

Merah, 23, was suspected of killing four people outside a Jewish school and three soldiers.

Interior Minister Claude Gueant said officers had thrown grenades and entered by the door and windows of the flat shortly after 09:30 GMT.

After surveying the scene and finding no sign of the suspect, they proceeded to the bathroom.

The suspect came out of the bathroom firing several weapons and then jumped from a window, continuing to fire. He was then found dead on the ground.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17473207
saab
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 05:46 am
@izzythepush,
Just read in a Danish paper, that he knew perfectly well what he did.
He killed 7 people, killed himself and will now become a marthyr. That seems to have been his plan....
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 07:41 am
@saab,
It's a pity they couldn't have captured him alive, but if someone is determined to go out guns blazing, there's not a lot you can do.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Mar, 2012 11:04 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

It's a pity they couldn't have captured him alive, but if someone is determined to go out guns blazing, there's not a lot you can do.


So he could possibly write a book in jail, possibly promulgate his beliefs in jail, and possibly hope to one day be part of a prisoner swap?

My empathy is for those that died, and their respective families.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 25 Mar, 2012 11:23 am
@Foofie,
That's very short term thinking. If you capture someone alive they can be interrogated. There's lessons to be learned about the process of radicalisation if nothing else.

I don't know about French law, but in the UK it's illegal to make money from a crime, that would include writing a book about the crime.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Mar, 2012 06:15 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

That's very short term thinking. If you capture someone alive they can be interrogated. There's lessons to be learned about the process of radicalisation if nothing else.



I would guess there are already think tanks that have delved into the supposed arcane process of radicalization of a Muslim in Europe, specifically France.

Perhaps, the "lessons to be learned" is better learned by any future radicalized Muslim that hates European soldiers and Jewish children. The lesson might be, in my opinion, is that one might be signing one's own death certificate if one decides to bring the hatred of the Middle East to Europe by "acting out" in such an unlawful manner.

In other words, radicalized Muslims should learn to "thumb their noses" at those they dislike. Maybe a loud "Harumph" would be acceptabe also. We wouldn't want radicalized Muslims to hold in any venomous emotions, so "thumbing one's nose," with a loud "Harumph" should be an adequate catharsis. Nothing more is really needed, if one understands that the hatred in the Middle East needs to stay there.

Perhaps, old episodes of Monty Python's Flying Circus could be viewed by alienated Muslims to learn the British art of showing displeasure, without resorting to illegal actions?

In my opinion, the lesson that immigrants in Europe might need to understand en toto, regardless of their level of alienation, or non-alienation, is that living in Europe requires civilized behavior. Period.



JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Mar, 2012 06:41 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
... Nothing more is really needed, if one understands that the hatred in the Middle East needs to stay there.


Actually, they think it better to fight them over there and there, so they don't have fight them over there.

On a side, but related note, we have one of the princes of darkness and deep murderous intent complaining about one person who has made not the slightest dent in what is an unbelievably uneven score.

Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it.

Noam Chomsky
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 01:17 am
@JTT,
Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
How can we stop participating in it when some of the terrorists are born in our country, citizens of our country, speak our language and earn their money in our country, which also is their country.
Still they are against our laws, our Christianity, our traditions.
Luckily it is a very small % who are terrorists or on that side, but it is still scary enough.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 02:51 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
In my opinion, the lesson that immigrants in Europe might need to understand en toto, regardless of their level of alienation, or non-alienation, is that living in Europe requires civilized behavior. Period.


Considering that your viewpoint is incredibly parochial, and you seem to rejoice in your ignorance of the outside world, your opinion isn't worth much.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 06:47 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Considering that your viewpoint is incredibly parochial, and you seem to rejoice in your ignorance of the outside world, your opinion isn't worth much.


You forgot to end your point above with, "in my opinion." And, by talking about what I might "rejoice in" is no argument to your opinion. And, you have not made an argument to warrant your view of "parochial."

But, your opinion does not reflect the circumstances that occurred. And, you cannot read the minds of the people whose job was to address the situation as it played out. Ascribing a lack of forethought would only be correct, if you can read minds. Your concern might have been weighed, and then disbanded. But, you might have more experience at these matters than the people that were involved?

izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 08:10 am
@Foofie,
I know more about France than you do. Adding 'in my opinion' to the end of everything is pointless, it's fairly obvious it's my opinion.

I was merely pointing out it was a pity that the gunman couldn't have been caught alive, I wasn't criticising the Fench police for not doing so, because it was fairly obvious he wanted to go out with all guns blazing.

You're the one deliberately conflating a regret that further intelligence could not be gathered from the gunman with concern for his welfare.
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 08:13 am
The French police have arrested the older brother.

Joe(the story goes on)Nation
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 08:15 am
@Joe Nation,
interesting....
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 08:15 am
@Joe Nation,
He's admitted to knowing about the stolen scooter, but he also said he was proud of his brother. If he is innocent, he's not making things easy for himself.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 09:09 am
The brother Abdelkader Merah is already known by the French security police because he has helped smuggel militant islamists into Iraq year 2007.
The mother of the two brothers and Abdelkader┬┤s girlfriend were also arrested but now free.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 01:13 pm
@saab,
You can see how this will play in an election, the left blaming integrationism and police failings, the right seeing it as a security issue.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 07:29 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
And, you have not made an argument to warrant your view of "parochial."


You make that argument with your every post, Foofie.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Mar, 2012 07:38 pm
@saab,
I'd say that they are more against the western nations, and those that support them, who commit terrorist acts against the people of their ethnic group.

You have to remember that it wasn't all that long ago that Americans of Irish descent were sending money and arms to the IRA. Have you ever heard of any of those folks being held to account for their actions?
0 Replies
 
 

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