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How much is it reasonable for a an employer to know about a potential employee?

 
 
msolga
 
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 06:22 am
Just read this article & frankly, I'm amazed that such intrusions into personal privacy are even considered, say nothing of allowable.

But apparently employers & job agencies are asking for much more personal information from job applicants. Like direct to access to applicants' social networking site activities....

So where do you stand on rights to personal privacy when applying for a job?
If you really wanted that job, would you hand over your Facebook & other access details on request?
Would you, like Justin Bassett (the statistician mentioned in the article) withdraw your application, or would you comply?

Taking the example of a statistician's job, would access to the details of an applicant's private life tell the employer any more about how competent that person would be at their job than, say ... some detailed references?
And how much is it reasonable to an employer to know about their workers' private lives, anyway?

I think such requests are completely unwarranted intrusion into employees' private lives. Which should not be the business of employers at all.

What do you say?

Quote:
'It's akin to requiring someone's house keys': employers ask job seekers for Facebook passwords
March 21, 2012 - 6:26PM/the AGE

http://images.theage.com.au/2012/03/21/3151589/vd-facebook-408x264.jpg
Watch out! The recruiters are looking (Video Thumbnail) Click to play video
Need a job? Watch your Facebook
Not only are employers scanning your Facebook account, but recruitment agencies are also conducting social media checks before recommending job seekers.


When Justin Bassett interviewed for a new job, he expected the usual questions about experience and references. So he was astonished when the interviewer asked for something else: his Facebook username and password.

Bassett, a New York City statistician, had just finished answering a few character questions when the interviewer turned to her computer to search for his Facebook page. But she couldn't see his private profile. She turned back and asked him to hand over his login information.


http://images.theage.com.au/2012/03/21/3150172/art-collins-420x0.jpg
Robert Collins ... says he had no option but to give his Facebook username and password. Photo: AP

Bassett refused and withdrew his application, saying he didn't want to work for a company that would seek such personal information. But as the job market steadily improves, other job candidates are confronting the same question from prospective employers, and some of them cannot afford to say no.

In their efforts to vet applicants, some companies and government agencies are going beyond merely glancing at a person's social networking profiles and instead asking to log in as the user to have a look around.

"It's akin to requiring someone's house keys," said Orin Kerr, a George Washington University law professor and former federal prosecutor who calls it "an egregious privacy violation."

Questions have been raised about the legality of the practice, which is also the focus of proposed legislation in Illinois and Maryland that would forbid public agencies from asking for access to social networks.

Since the rise of social networking, it has become common for managers to review publicly available Facebook profiles, Twitter accounts and other sites to learn more about job candidates. But many users, especially on Facebook, have their profiles set to private, making them available only to selected people or certain networks.

Companies that don't ask for passwords have taken other steps — such as asking applicants to friend human resource managers or to log in to a company computer during an interview. Once employed, some workers have been required to sign non-disparagement agreements that ban them from talking negatively about an employer on social media.

Asking for a candidate's password is more prevalent among public agencies, especially those seeking to fill law enforcement positions such as police officers or 911 dispatchers.

Back in 2010, Robert Collins was returning to his job as a correctional officer at the Maryland Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services after taking a leave following his mother's death. During a reinstatement interview, he was asked for his login and password, purportedly so the agency could check for any gang affiliations. He was stunned by the request but complied.

"I needed my job to feed my family. I had to," he recalled.

After the ACLU complained about the practice, the agency amended its policy, asking instead for job applicants to log in during interviews.

"To me, that's still invasive. I can appreciate the desire to learn more about the applicant, but it's still a violation of people's personal privacy," said Collins, whose case inspired Maryland's legislation.

Until last year, the city of Bozeman had a long-standing policy of asking job applicants for passwords to their email addresses, social-networking websites and other online accounts.

And since 2006, the McLean County sheriff's office has been one of several Illinois sheriff's departments that ask applicants to sign into social media sites to be screened. ...<cont>


http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/its-akin-to-requiring-someones-house-keys-employers-ask-job-seekers-for-facebook-passwords-20120321-1vioi.html
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 08:07 am
@msolga,
I think that it's fair game for employers to Google an applicant's name and see what comes up. If that includes Facebook, I think that's OK. (Not great, but minimally acceptable.)

Logins/ passwords, no.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 08:11 am
@msolga,
The simplest solution is to delete all such accounts until the job search is done and keep a personal and business email accounts.

When the job market is as tight as it is now employers will feel free to demand almost anything from jobs searchers.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 08:18 am
@sozobe,
Quote:
After the ACLU complained about the practice, the agency amended its policy, asking instead for job applicants to log in during interviews.

I guess this is the lesser of two evils (the other one being the actual documenting and handing over ones password and username) but there could be (in rare cases I suppose) the possibility of some sociopathic boss or HR manager having downloaded a keyboard capture software working on his computer to record ones password and username if one has to log into the interviewer's computer during this vetting process.

That non-disparagement agreement also is a disturbing bit of work by itself and should be made optional only if not illegal to force people to sign pre or post hiring.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 08:57 am
i hope to never work for anyone who cares what i do in my personal life

after all i don't care what my employers do in theirs
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 09:07 am
When I interview a potential employee, I never ask personal questions. The generic initial job application form does have a question about prior convictions if any, but I have never had anyone answer these kind of questions with yes.

However, recently I did use a facebook entry of a former employee who filed for unemployment on our account after she was terminated. She deliberately worked towards getting terminated and stated so several times at her facebook wall. After her termination she again had an entry on her wall telling the world that she finally succeeded in getting fired. One of our
employees had befriended her on facebook and gave me a copy of what was said by the former employee. I used that to make my point at the EED where she filed for unemployment. Based on that, she did not receive any unemployment compensation.
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 09:12 am
@msolga,
I read this too - and am baffled that it is allowed/legal to even request a password. I mean potential employers are not supposed to be able to ask you about things like if you are married or have children, etc. so how can this be ok?

In any case, I don't have a facebook account and this gives me even more reason not to.

As far as googling, etc - well that's all public info so far game.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 09:13 am
They can't check your online profiles if you don't have any.

I'd tell them to piss off, anyway. I mean, the gall! As if anything there is any of their business, at all.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 09:14 am
@CalamityJane,
that is just plain dumb - she deserves it.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 05:08 pm
Thank you for your responses.
Interesting, your different perspectives ...

I'm in a helluva rush this morning (work) so this post will have to be very brief.
But I'm wondering what has brought about this change in employers attitudes to & treatment of those they employ? Why they might believe such surveillance is necessary, anyway?

My hunch is that it has something to do with a shortage of available jobs ... the demand for work compared to the supply of work actually available.
Also, of course, the popularity of social networking sites has meant a lot more personal information about people can be accessed.

Me, I strongly believe that the things you say on Facebook, Twitter, etc, are your business. And anyone who is not part of that personal aspect of your life has no right to know what you say about what you did on the weekend, which political candidates you support, who your friends are, problems you might be experiencing with your children, etc, etc ...
I think such a requirement, as part of applying for a job, is way over-stepping
the requirements of a selection process. It's an intrusion into you privacy.

Where I live, teachers & others who work with children, in any capacity (paid or voluntary work), must undertake a mandatory police check (for prior convictions) prior to being accepted for such jobs. That's fair enough, I think. But why would an employer need to delve any further than that? Assuming that your job interview went well, your referees were positive about your capabilities in the field, & the employer's character assessment, & health checks were positive?
It sounds like Big Brother to me.

Work is only one part of anyone's life. An employer has every right to monitor how effectively you do your job, your performance in the workplace .... but you should be able to enjoy the rest of your life free of the constraints of your job. It is your time, not your employers.
Imagine if every time you posted on facebook or on any other social networking site, if you had to worry that the boss might be reading your words, looking at the photographs you've posted ... that's an intrusion on your rights as a citizen. Nothing to do with the boss.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 06:23 pm
@msolga,
Of course employers take advantage of tight labor markets to "****" on employees in both small and big ways that is good old human nature at it very worst.

At least this in not the 1930s where the employers would in many cases pay you not in US currency but in company scrip instead that only happen to be good at company stores or had goons machine gun you from an overpass. footnote see the history of labor relations in regard to Ford for an example of union negotiation by means of Thompson machine guns fire.

All in all the invasion of your privacy is not the worst possible abused.

Who know maybe the GOP will be able to bring us back to this wonderful time that is still within the lifetime of many people.

.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 06:30 pm
@msolga,
this is one of the reasons (not the only one) that I don't do the social networking thing.

they can't find what isn't there...

I think giving passwords for anything to an employer is asking for trouble later.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 09:30 pm
A person ought to do their social networking under a false name, if it comes to that. Perhaps open a double account in your own name then.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Wed 21 Mar, 2012 10:39 pm
@msolga,
I think people have to realize that what they post on the internet may not always remain private and it can affect other aspects of your life.

But actually asking potential employees for passwords and logins is outrageous. That's a totally unnecessary violation of privacy. Offhand, I can't think of anything that would justify that sort of invasive snooping, no matter what the job market is like.

And being required to let a prospective employer look through something like your e-mail, even without revealing your password to them, is equally outrageous. What on earth does that have to do with any qualifications for employment?

Maybe the internet, and the social networking sites, have just made people more generally exhibitionistic and voyeuristic, and blurred the boundaries between the public and the private, and moving it into the employment realm is a logical extension of that. But it really doesn't make sense to me.

I'm going to see if I can delve into this a bit more to try to understand the rationale behind it.

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 02:08 am
Thanks again for all your thoughts on this predicament some potential (& possibly existing employees?) now find themselves in.

But I'm still totally at a loss when trying to comprehend why businesses would choose such a course of action in regard to their employees.
For starters, it would create more work for management, checking out this online information. With little (that I can see) to be gained from the exercise.
What exactly is the benefit to the company?

Businesses are in the business of making profit, obviously. So how does the surveillance of the available online personal information of potential & existing employees contribute to that?

To engage in such practices would simply make employees feel more vulnerable, resentful, & suspicious of management, surely? In my experience & observation, unhappy workplaces definitely aren't the most productive or creative environments to work in. Those are the sorts of workplaces which encourage people to leave, as soon as a better work opportunity presents itself. And why wouldn't they?

Firefly, if you do come across anything in your investigations which might shed some light on why these sorts of management practices have become so prevalent, please enlighten us!
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 04:31 am
@msolga,
Msolga there is no rational business reasons for such heavy handed invasion of privacy it just human nature and people in power exercising that power for their own emotional needs.

Business organizations after all are make up of irrational human beings and there was no rational business reason to have a large internal spy outfit by the name of the service department under Henry Ford for thirty plus years either.

There was no rational reason for having a yearly check on the assembly line employees home lives in order to see if they "deserve" their yearly Ford's bonuses either.

In one company I know of there is no rational reasons under new ownership to take away chairs and force people on the work floor to work standing up all day or even have meetings without chairs for that matter.

Or take away company cell phones for many levels of employees when the company still have many months long ongoing contracts that require them to pay for them in any regard.

It all a human need to show power and a pecking order even if the actions are harmful to the business goals of the firm in question.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 05:08 am
the fact that i think the Canadian Minister for Foreign Affairs should commit ritual suicide (something i've posted on Facebook, under my own name) should have no impact on my ability to do any job (except maybe work for the Conservative Party, but even then, who says i have to like all my co workers, i didn't threaten anyone, i actually suggested something he could do that might make folks happy)

0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 03:16 pm
I'm stunned.
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 03:34 pm
Some of my favorite Facebook stories are about people who do stupid (or even criminal) things and then get caught because they bragged about it on facebook. I think I saw one or two such tales on Edgar's "Humor & Oddities" thread Smile
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Mar, 2012 04:24 pm
@dlowan,
how do you think i felt
0 Replies
 
 

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