10
   

CNN: Giffords to Resign from Congress

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 01:01 am
@firefly,
Quote:
You do realize she was shot while performing the duties of her office--meeting with her constituents
It is the unwillingness/inability to carry out the functions of representing the people that matters, not the reason or the excuse there-of. I have said previously that the people might well want to make a place to park her so that she can recover on the taxpayers dime due to her being injured in a hostile act while representing the people, but Representative of the AZ-8 is too important a position to be used for that purpose.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 01:08 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Those were her offices with her staff and they are being closed.


are you ignorant or lying....I am no longer as sure as I once was that it is the latter.

Quote:
By Steve Kozachik

The voters elected Congresswoman Giffords to represent Congressional District 8. As everybody knows, through no fault of her own, she has been forced to step down. That istrict now needs a caretaker until November. Ideally, the Congresswoman would select somebody from within her inner circle to carry out her agenda through the end of her term. The logical names that come to mind are Ron Barber or Mark Kimble, both of whom have been loyal and reflect Gabby’s principles.

Both Democrats and Republicans should stand down on campaigning for the D8 seat. In November, it will dissolve and become embedded within the new District 2. There will be plenty of candidates competing for the new District seat, but 8 belongs to Ms.Giffords. That was the will of the voters as expressed in 2010.

The Congresswoman’s staff has been doing the heavy lifting of constituent work, lobbying on behalf of causes that are important to the Congresswoman, and keeping the D8 office afloat during the course of her recovery. That work should be honored and if there exists within that staff one who is willing to step up and take on the duties of being her arms, legs, and voice on the House floor through the end of the term, that staff has earned the right. They are the staff she chose. They are the staff who knows the issues.

In fairness to the D2 candidates, I understand that there are built in advantages to running for office as an incumbent. For that reason, my use of the word ‘caretaker’ was intentional. Whoever steps into her shoes must do so with the open commitment that this is for the remainder of her term. At that time, the will of the voters will have been honored and the ‘caretaker’ Representative will step down. Afterwards, the District boundaries will change, the constituents will change and the campaign for that new seat should be conducted on a level playing field; no advantage of incumbency.

If D8 is filled through the Special Election in a competitive race, candidates will have to run 2 simultaneous campaigns (one for the Special Election, and one for the new D2 seat,) they will need to raise money for 2 campaigns, the winner of D8 will take office and have to continue to focus on the D2 campaign for the rest of the election cycle, and in the process money will be wasted, attention to the needs of the D8 constituents will go unaddressed, and the work of the current D8 staff will be dishonored.

In the event the current D8 staff members simply want to ride out the remainder of the term doing the fine work they have been doing, I would still propose that Gabby offer up her strong choice for a caretaker candidate. That person would be honor bound to retain her entire staff, pursue her Congressional agenda through the remainder of the term, and step aside in November for the newly formed D2 Representative. If she were to do that, I would hope both Republicans and Democrats would stand down on running for the D8 seat and simply allow her choice to run unopposed.

Gabrielle Giffords was elected to an office that will end in November, 2012. Her staff has been focused on the needs of her constituents, despite the tragic events that threw her plans off course. We don’t need people running simultaneous campaigns for her seat, with the unspoken, but real intent of gaining an advantage by virtue of being called an ‘incumbent’ in what is rightfully her seat. She should be
given the opportunity to select her successor – and that person must take on that role with the expressed intent of stepping aside at the end of her term.

There are those who will say that it is the electorate who is to choose the Representative for D8. In fact, they did. Gabrielle Giffords was the choice of the voters in 2010. Her staff has shown it can ride out the storm and finish the term. Candidates should not subvert the will of the voters by taking advantage of the tragic events of January 2011.

Republican Tucson City Councilman Steve Kozachik represents Ward Six. He’s the director of facilities for the University of Arizona Department of Athletics.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/tc-guest-blog/2012/01/29/to-honor-giffords-candidates-should-only-run-in-the-new-district-2/

The office is still funded, the staff is going nowhere right away, not till July at the earliest.


Quote:
"We won't be able to answer the phone, 'Office of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.' We'll have to answer the phone, 'Office of the 8th Congressional District.' Just that small change, really is huge for us. We're so proud to serve her and work for her. Not to be able to use her name as representing her is going to be hard I think," says Communications Director, Mark Kimble.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/giffords-staff-says-goodbye-/

In other words now they are going to have to be honest about what is going on. So tough.
Quote:
Constituents care more about that sort of direct assistance then they care about whether the representative is in Washington voting on a bill that doesn't pertain to them in any way.


The cynics have long claimed that most people care more about their representative bringing home the pork than they do about doing good works for the nation on the floor of the House, and that is probably more true than ever now that few people expect anything worthwhile out of Washington other than pork, but that is not a good reason to let Giffords behavior stand, or to support it.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 02:18 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
It is the unwillingness/inability to carry out the functions of representing the people that matters, not the reason or the excuse there-of.

She was not unwilling to carry out her functions.

And, as long as she was in office, her Congressional district offices were open she was carrying out her duty to represent the people of her district in their dealings with the federal government. That is a major part of the service that a Congressional representative provides.

As I said before...

As far as I know, there will now be no Congressional district offices to handle constituents needs and inquiries, or to register constituents opinions on any pending legislation in Congress, until a new representative is elected. Who would run or fund them? Those were her offices, with her staff, they ran under her direction, and they are being closed.
Quote:
The cynics have long claimed that most people care more about their representative bringing home the pork than they do about doing good works for the nation on the floor of the House

You don't even understand what a Congressional district office does. Rolling Eyes It has nothing to do with "bringing home the pork"--if pork comes home, it is through legislation, and generally not to a single Congressional district, but to an area--and that is what goes on on the floor of the House. As usual, you have it backward. Rolling Eyes

Repeatedly, throughout this thread, all you have done is display your glaring ignorance about the actual day-to-day work a Representative in Congress does for a district--and that work goes on in the district, not in Washington..

Those district offices are a major source of assistance for constituents who have problems with Social Security, Medicare, and any other benefit program, or department, involving the federal government. Constituents care more about that sort of direct assistance, that helps them in their daily lives, then they care about whether the representative is in Washington voting on a bill that doesn't pertain to them in any way. Those offices provide real and meaningful assistance to constituents--they are the constituents link to the federal government, and they provide help, and intervention, for constituents who are trying to deal with the bureauracy of the federal government.
Quote:
The office is still funded, the staff is going nowhere right away, not till July at the earliest.

Show me the proof of that. That article you posted says nothing of the sort. It's urging a "caretaker candidate", of Giffords choosing, to be the only candidate on the special election ballot, to keep things running until November, as she would have done, and who then would also retain her staff until November. It refers to a member of her staff possibly being that candidate--since they are the people most familiar with the issues of the district. And it says..
Quote:
In the event the current D8 staff members simply want to ride out the remainder of the term doing the fine work they have been doing...
Referring to their continuing to work for whoever will be chosen in July, if they want to.
It does not say the district offices will remain open between now and July or that they will be funded between now and July--it says nothing of the sort. As usual, you don't even understand the material you post.

She has resigned, and, once that happens, her district offices close, her staff disbands, the funding stops, and there is no Congressional district office because the district now has no representative until a new one is elected. Those were her district offices, and her staff--and the funding for them was allotted to her.

You've proved your ignorance, and little else, with almost every issue you've raised in this thread.



hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 02:36 am
@firefly,
Quote:

She was not unwilling to carry out her functions


Right, she was unable.

Quote:
Those district offices are a major source of assistance for constituents who have problems with Social Security, Medicare, and any other benefit program, or department, involving the federal government


Pork = getting money out of Washington, which is 9.9 times out of ten why anyone seeks assistance from a representatives office. Lots of bitching too, but that is not looking for assistance.

Quote:
Show me the proof of that. That article you posted says nothing of the sort.
Actually it does. THis is also something that you would know if you were educated on how the Congressional districts are run.

Quote:
Those were her district offices, and her staff--and the funding for them was allotted to her.


Here is the Washington office number
(202) 225-2542

Call it in the morning and let me know if anyone picks up. If the answer is no then I will try it. If you are right I will treat you to dinner the next time you are in Seattle.

Quote:
The ten staff members in Tucson and two in Sierra Vista will remain employed in Congressional District 8 until a new representative is elected to office, "after tomorrow we won't be able to answer the phone 'Office of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.' We'll have to answer the phone, 'Office of the 8th Congressional District," Barber explained

http://www.kvoa.com/videos/giffords-staff-thinks-about-future/

BTW-idiots and lazy people who refuse to do their own research bother me...and with you I get a twofer!

PS: I lived in Sierra Vista for 5 years, this BS is personal to me, this is an old district of mine.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 02:54 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
THis is also something that you would know if you were educated on how the Congressional districts are run.

Well, since you are ostensibly so well educated, you tell me who is paying the staff, and the rental on the offices, etc, between now and July since the money for that was alloted to Giffords, and she's now out of office.

The funds for staff and office are alloted directly to the member of Congress...not to the district.
Quote:
House of Representatives

Each Member of the House of Representatives is provided with three allowances to spend on official duties, office, staff, and mail. These allowances are: personnel, official office expenses, and official mail (franked mail). In 2003 the total amount of allowance provided to Members of the House ranged from $701,136 to $1,636,750. Members do not have to use all of the money alloted to them in their allowances.

Personnel: Each Member is alloted $748,312 to hire up to 18 staff and four additional temporary, part-time, of shared staff. Staff can not be paid more than $151,974 per year.
Official office expenses: Each Member begins with a base allowance of $187,236 to spend on office expenses. Office expenses may include travel costs, office equipment, district office rental, stationary and office supplies, telecommunications, printing, postage, computer services, and other office-related expenses.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Congressional_Offices_and_Staff

So, how are the staff and the rental fees on offices being paid without a Member in the House from that district? Who's paying them? Are you even sure they are being paid?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 03:05 am
@firefly,
Quote:
So, how are the staff and the rental fees on offices being paid without a Member in the House from that district? Who's paying them? Are you even sure they are being paid?
Are you actually suggesting that people will be working for free till July?

I think that the most senior member of the party to which the vacant office belonged to last takes over the office budget as if they were running a trust, and makes any needed staff decisions until such time as the office is again with Representative, but it is late and I need to go to bed. I might perhaps do the research for you at a later time assuming you dont get a wild hair and decide to find out for yourself.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 03:42 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Are you actually suggesting that people will be working for free till July?

They might well be working for free...and hoping to get a paying job with whoever is elected in July and then with whoever is elected in November.
Quote:
I think that the most senior member of the party to which the vacant office belonged to last takes over the office budget as if they were running a trust, and makes any needed staff decisions until such time as the office is again

The political party has absolutely nothing to do with it. Do you just make this stuff up? Rolling Eyes

The budget for the staff and offices was alloted directly to the Member of Congress--to Giffords. That Member is now out of Congress. So, you tell me the source of the funding and authority to keep those offices open until a new representative is elected. And who's supervising what goes on in those offices--who are the staff answerable to?
Quote:
Pork = getting money out of Washington, which is 9.9 times out of ten why anyone seeks assistance from a representatives office. Lots of bitching too, but that is not looking for assistance.

Pork has a different meaning, and you know that. It doesn't refer to money that citizens/constituents are legitimately entitled to and that the government isn't giving them.

Congressional district offices do far more for constituents, that affects their daily lives, than most of the crap that goes on in the halls of Congress.

And it is hard to convincingly say that Giffords constituents did not continued to be serviced, and helped, and represented, even though she wasn't in Washington...
Quote:
U.S. REP. GABRIELLE GIFFORDS' OFFICE RECOVERS $314,000 IN OVERDUE BENEFITS FOR VIETNAM VETERAN
January 18, 2012
Payment for medical problems caused by long-ago exposure to Agent Orange is largest recovery for congresswoman’s office

TUCSON – A constituent services representative in the office of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords has recovered more than $314,000 in compensation for a Vietnam veteran who has multiple medical problems because of his exposure to Agent Orange decades ago.

The payment of $314,062 from the Veterans Administration is the largest recovery made by caseworkers who have been working for Giffords since she took office five years ago.

The 64-year-old veteran served in the U.S. Army in Cambodia and Vietnam where he was exposed to Agent Orange, a specific blend of herbicides. In Southeast Asia, the U.S. military sprayed millions of gallons of herbicides on trees and vegetation that provided cover for enemy forces.

Because of confidentiality issues, the veteran, who now lives in Tucson, is not being identified. He suffers from ischemic heart disease and diabetes mellitus type II, both of which were caused by his exposure to Agent Orange. He also has a thermal injury and post-traumatic stress disorder.

The veteran filed a claim for compensation for his service-related injuries saying they were caused by exposure to Agent Orange. But the claim of this veteran and many others was denied because at the time, ischemic heart disease was not a medical problem that the VA considered a presumptive illness due to Agent Orange exposure.

However, in October 2010, the VA added diseases – including ischemic heart disease – to the list of those that were presumptively caused by Agent Orange exposure. The veteran contacted Giffords’ office in July 2011 to ask for assistance in recovering benefits that he should have been receiving since he contracted the heart disease a decade earlier.

Patty Valera, a constituent services representative in Giffords’ Tucson office, contacted the VA on behalf of the veteran and asked them to re-examine his case. Valera exchanged numerous letters with VA officials over the ensuing months as she pressed the VA to pay the veteran his overdue benefits.

Then within the past few days, Valera was notified that the VA had ruled in favor of the veteran and paid him $314,062 in retroactive benefits. In addition, he will receive disability benefits of $2,868 per month.

The benefit that Valera received for the veteran is unusual because of its size, but otherwise is typical of the daily work done by the team of constituent services representatives in Giffords’ offices.

More than 12,000 cases have been opened by Giffords’ constituent services staff since the congresswoman took office in 2007. In recent months, Giffords’ staff members have helped:

• A 70-year-old widow of a veteran who received $70,000 in owed compensation from the VA, just in time to pay for rent and food.
• An 87-year-old World War II veteran who received $13,000 in owed compensation from the VA. He is using it to care for his wife who is sick.
• A disabled homeowner who received a loan modification that prevented foreclosure and allowed her to afford her home.
• A special education pre-school teacher struggling to make ends meet who received a loan modification that significantly reduced her interest rate.
• A family who received their Lawful Permanent Resident cards in time for Christmas after waiting for five years.

• A 90-year-old World War II veteran who received four long-overdue medals 65 years after he left the service.

“Congresswoman Giffords came into office determined to have the strongest constituent services operation in Congress – and that commitment has not waivered,” said Pia Carusone, chief of staff for Giffords. “Our staff works hard every day to help the congresswoman’s constituents in southern Arizona in any way that we can.”

Giffords’ office has handled about 2,500 constituent requests per year – almost four times the average handled by the nation’s 435 members of the House of Representatives.

Giffords’ staff receives about 60 new requests for assistance each week. Some cases are resolved quickly while others take far longer, with numerous phone calls and letters exchanged with relevant federal agencies.

The greatest number of requests for assistance comes from veterans and active-duty military, seniors and families struggling to make ends meet. There also are numerous requests for assistance with passports, visas and foreign travel problems.

Common requests for help include:

• Homeowners trying to navigate the Making Home Affordable program to prevent foreclosure.

• Active-duty military dealing with TRICARE and other concerns.

• Patients working with the high-risk pool established by health insurance reform legislation.

• Students who have issues with loans through the Department of Education.

• Taxpayers working with the Internal Revenue Service.
http://giffords.house.gov/2012/01/us-rep-gabrielle-giffords-office-recovers-314000-in-overdue-benefits-for-vietnam-veteran-1.shtml

You just don't know, or understand, what members of Congress do for constituents through their district offices.

It's not just about what goes on in Washington.

0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 07:58 am
@hawkeye10,
This is from your source hawk...




and the act
of expulsion of a disabled or incapacitated Member is unlikely


While it may be possible for the Senate to do just about anything it is as unlikely for them to fly the entire Senate to the moon as it is for them to expel a member for incapacity.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 08:01 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

Bullshit, not when it comes to showing up to Congress as each member does not have the authority to decide for themselves to not show up and participate in Congress

Actually,. they DO have that authority hawk. One need only look at the number of members of Congress that have run for higher office to see how many of them don't show up for long periods of time.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 08:02 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
It is within the rights of each house to expel those who dont show up, so long as the rules have already been established before the infraction,

That just undercut your entire BS argument hawk.

There is no current rule so there is no basis to expel Giffordss. Or do you bother to think at all?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 09:34 am
@parados,
Quote:
There is no current rule so there is no basis to expel Giffordss. Or do you bother to think at all?


Nor is such a rule needed as the constitution give the power to congress two houses to act as they see fit in expelling a member.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 10:06 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:
It is within the rights of each house to expel those who dont show up, so long as the rules have already been established before the infraction,

That just undercut your entire BS argument hawk.

There is no current rule so there is no basis to expel Giffordss. Or do you bother to think at all?

Giffords is not a member of Congress, so she can't be expelled from Congress, do you bother to think at all?
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 10:16 am
@parados,
Quote:
While it may be possible for the Senate to do just about anything it is as unlikely for them to fly the entire Senate to the moon as it is for them to expel a member for incapacity.


Nonsense as I can not see even that body allowing a state to loss half of it senators for up to 6 years if someone become disable shortly after winning a term.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 11:22 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Nonsense as I can not see even that body allowing a state to loss half of it senators for up to 6 years if someone become disable shortly after winning a term.

Why would the Senate, as an entire body, even be concerned about the representation from one state? Does the absence of one Senator significantly affect the functioning of the entire Senate?

Since the Senator is elected by the people of his/her state, that's who would have a valid interest in whether or not they actually had a fully functioning Senator who was serving the interests of the state.
And additionally, the political party of that Senator might have an interest if they needed, and lacked, a body in a chair to cast votes in line with the party's political agenda.
But the Senate, as a whole, has no vested interest in whether or not Sen. Mark Kirk's recovery keeps him out of commission for one month, six months, or a year. The business of the Senate will continue whether Kirk is part of it or he isn't.

If your argument is so valid, how come Congress has never expelled any sitting member for disability/incapacity, when there have been many members who have gone through extended periods where their functioning was affected by medical problems?
And, since every member of Congress might someday face an unanticipated medical problem and an extended recovery, why would they want to set a precedent that might cause them to lose their own seat, and take the choice about resignation out of their own hands? It's not in their own self interest to start expelling other members for such reasons.

It's going to be the voters in Illinois who will wind up deciding how long a period of extended recovery they will find acceptable in the case of Sen. Kirk. If a year from now, he is still not ready or able to be involved in his office, to a degree that the voters in Illinois find acceptable, there likely will be loud and vocal discussion of the matter, along with increased pressure on him to resign the office, but that impetus has to come primarily from the people who elected him and the state that he represents.

And there was no loud, public vocal protest from the voters in Giffords Congressional district that she was remaining in office too long. They gave her the time to arrive at her own decision. And Congress was able to function with the other 434 members, not all of whom were present for all of the other votes cast in the past year. It was Giffords decision to make, and she made it in her own time for her own reasons.

Meanwhile, these hypotheticals about expulsion of incapacitated members of Congress are meaningless. One might as well speculate about whether Obama could go through gender re-assignment surgery and treatment and become the nation's first female President. Sure, that's possible too, but is it at all likely?

BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 11:33 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Why would the Senate, as an entire body, even be concerned about the representation from one state? Does the absence of one Senator significantly affect the functioning of the entire Senate?


Well people there is not a great deal more I can add to Firefly comment concerning her opinion of the senate as a body not caring about the rights of a state with millions of population to have their full constitution representation in that body.

It nice to know that she have an even lower opinion of that body then I do.

I had always known that there is something badly wrong with this lady but sometimes she even surprise me and this is one of them.

Shaking my head in shock...............
Joe Nation
 
  3  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 11:55 am
@BillRM,
So, you are not going to address the issues and questions she raised?

Joe(pretty weak, Bill)Nation
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 12:29 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Giffords is not a member of Congress, so she can't be expelled from Congress, do you bother to think at all?


Correct. She resigned from Congress, so she doesn't need to be expelled from Congress.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 12:33 pm
@Joe Nation,
The over riding issue is that every state and that state people have a right to two senators not one.

If the congress had gotten so rotten that is members as a whole do not care about the most fundamental principles of the constitution then it seems time to either clean house or even change the basic of our government due to it no longer functioning.

Frankly with having the best congress money can buy by special interest groups maybe we are reaching that point but I seems to still have more faith in congress then Firefly does.
Joe Nation
 
  3  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 01:03 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The over riding issue is that every state and that state people have a right to two senators not one.

Agreed.
Where we disagree is who gets to demand the right of a particular State's people to have that right fulfilled?
The answer is : the people of the particular State. It's their representative.


Joe(Let the people be.)Nation
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2012 01:26 pm
@Joe Nation,
Bill and hawk sure can stack the BS deep cant they?
0 Replies
 
 

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