43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Equipment requirements and carriage of passengers
(Section 316.2065(2), (3), (7), (8), and (14), F.S.)

A bicycle operated between sunset and sunrise must be equipped with a lamp on the front exhibiting a white light visible from 500 feet to the front and both a red reflector and a lamp on the rear exhibiting a red light visible from 600 feet to the rear.


http://www.dot.state.fl.us/safety/ped_bike/laws/ped_bike_bikeLaws1.shtm

hawkeye10 wrote:
Did this bike comply with the law?
That 's a GOOD point, Hawkeye.
If I remember accurately, someone indicated that the bike was dark.



hawkeye10 wrote:
If not did any police officer ever notice this guy
riding at night on an illegal and unsafe bike?
Do we have information on that point ?





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:44 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Sure, but then you can be subpoenaed to give testimony under oath. Th


Sorry under what legal theory does a subpoenaed override the 5 amendment Firefly?

Yes there are ways of getting around the problem by granting immunity to the person you wish to testify but short of that the 5 amendment is a shield.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:47 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Do you talk note Hawkeye of how must of a hipocrite Firefly is willing to be as a man on a bike is not worthless but if I am using a bike for long distance travel the reason must be that I do not had a valid driver license due to DUIs convictions.

it never occurred to me take that assertion seriously, I took it as a garden variety slime injection from Firefly, the one who habitually endeavours to avoid points of view for which she has no counter argument, and far too often gets away with it.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:47 pm
@BillRM,
How in the world do you figure that not having a valid driver's license is the result of having lost it due to a DUI? A little fairy told you or what? You're psychic? I know people who've never had a drivers license and never touch a drop of alcohol either. I also know people who use bycicles or public transportation because a car -- any car -- is too much for them to afford. Believe it or not, there are poor but honest and sober people in this world.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:48 pm
@blueveinedthrobber,
Quote:
Drinking and driving are illegal. Period.


Sorry drinking and driving is not illegal period.

So any blood alcohol level at all that can be detected it should be illegal to drive period?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:49 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
That was bill attempting to communicate something firefly had suggested about him (I think - they're both confusing to follow at times).
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:50 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Drinking and driving are illegal. Period.


Sorry drinking and driving is not illegal period.

So any blood alcohol level at all that can be detected it should be illegal to drive period?



I stand corrected and apologize for spoiling the tone of my obviously otherwise serious post.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:54 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Too bad you had not been following this thread where Firefly claimed I must be cycling long distance due to not being allow to drive because of DUIs convictions.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:55 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
After all it is far more important to obey the letter of the law and watch someone died then to go to a phone to call for help.

He didn't go to a phone to call for help--he called the police to turn himself in. Had he not done that, they would have come after him with an arrest warrant if they had a description of his car or any other info that would have led them to him. The man committed a crime and fled the scene of the crime. Then he went home and, at some point, called the police and turned himself in.
Quote:
An it that mean the the man died because no one knew the need for paramedicals that is just too bad.

I can't even decipher that incoherent statement.

I repeat...
When a law says you are to stop your vehicle at the scene and to offer or get immediate aid for the victim, it means exactly what it says--it does not mean that you drive home and call the police some time later (and you do not know the time interval that elapsed before Thom made that call).

Yes, you are expected to obey the letter of the law, unless it is not possible to do so, and you are in big trouble if you don't obey the letter of the law--as Thom just found out.

Thom violated the law by leaving the scene of the accident/crime--he never even stopped to see what kind of condition the man was in. There is no legitimate excuse for that.




hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:55 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Drinking and driving are illegal. Period.


Sorry drinking and driving is not illegal period.

So any blood alcohol level at all that can be detected it should be illegal to drive period?



We are working towards that. How far are we going to let the laws go towards criminalizing all drinking and driving?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 03:56 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
When a law says you are to stop your vehicle at the scene and to offer or get immediate aid for the victim, it means exactly what it says--it does not mean that you drive home and call the police some time later (and you do not know the time interval that elapsed before Thom made that call).
BillRM wrote:
An it that mean the the man died because no one knew the need for paramedicals that is just too bad.

After all it is far more important to obey the letter of the law and watch someone died then to go to a phone to call for help.
It appears that the facts of ax require a definition
of the scene thereof. Arguably, defendant lived at the scene of the ax
and he used available equipment (his fone at home) to summon help.
Can a distance of 1.5 blocks reasonably be defined as at the scene??
I can see that.
It remains for the court to interpret legislative intent.





David
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 04:01 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
the 5 amendment is a shield.

Only against self-incrimination--meaning you have something to hide.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 04:03 pm
@hawkeye10,
I wonder, would a flight commander allow a pilot to down a couple and then get into a jet? Do airlines encourage pilots to top up but stay below the legal limit?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 04:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Drinking and driving are illegal. Period.


Sorry drinking and driving is not illegal period.

So any blood alcohol level at all that can be detected it should be illegal to drive period?

hawkeye10 wrote:
We are working towards that. How far are we going to let the laws go towards criminalizing all drinking and driving?
I am of opinion that the public wants to drink alcohol.
I believe that the public wants to drive around.
I 'm pretty sure that the public is already acquainted with the dangers involved.




David
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 04:09 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Only against self-incrimination--meaning you have something to hide.


I don't believe that's why you take the fifth, FF - just lots of things to keep hidden.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 04:11 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
He didn't go to a phone to call for help--he called the police to turn himself in. [/quote

Sorry but that is not how I read it.............
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 04:11 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Arguably, defendant lived at the scene of the ax
and he used available equipment (his fone at home) to summon help.

Oh, please, David, the defendant didn't live at the scene of the accident. The accident happened on a public street. You're being absurd.

The law required him to immediately pull over and stop his car after hitting the cyclist. He didn't do that. He hit the man and kept on driving. He's in a great deal of trouble for leaving the scene of an accident/crime.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 04:15 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
He didn't go to a phone to call for help--he called the police to turn himself in. Had he not done that, they would have come after him with an arrest warrant if they had a description of his car or any other info that would have led them to him. The man committed a crime and fled the scene of the crime.


The message that the state seems to be sending to the citizens with their charging choices here is that once we are 100 ft beyond the accident scene if we think that there is any chance that we will not get caught then we should drive on, and never admit anything to anyone. Thom was an idiot both for calling and for saying that he thought that he might have hit someone.

This reminds me of how parents once turned their kids over to police because they thought it was the right thing to do, something that rarely happens anymore because we have wised up on the stupidity of that move given the out of control state.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 04:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Thom was an idiot both for calling and for saying that he thought that he might have hit someone

Spoken like a true sociopath.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 04:19 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Can a distance of 1.5 blocks reasonably be defined as at the scene??
I can see that.
It remains for the court to interpret legislative intent.


David there is also the necessary defense as in it was necessary to leaved the scene to call for help.

If he did not have a working cell phone that would be one hell of a defense.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Necessity+defense

A defense asserted by a criminal or civil defendant that he or she had no choice but to break the law.

The necessity defense has long been recognized as Common Law and has also been made part of most states' statutory law. Although no federal statute acknowledges the defense, the Supreme Court has recognized it as part of the common law. The rationale behind the necessity defense is that sometimes, in a particular situation, a technical breach of the law is more advantageous to society than the consequence of strict adherence to the law. The defense is often used successfully in cases that involve a Trespass on property to save a person's life or property. It also has been used, with varying degrees of success, in cases involving more complex questions.

Almost all common-law and statutory definitions of the necessity defense include the following elements: (1) the defendant acted to avoid a significant risk of harm; (2) no adequate lawful means could have been used to escape the harm; and (3) the harm avoided was greater than that caused by breaking the law. Some jurisdictions require in addition that the harm must have been imminent and that the action taken must have been reasonably expected to avoid the imminent danger. All these elements mirror the principles on which the defense of necessity was founded: first, that the highest social value is not always achieved by blind adherence to the law; second, that it is unjust to punish those who technically violate the letter of the law when they are acting to promote or achieve a higher social value than would be served by strict adherence to the law; and third, that it is in society's best interest to promote the greatest good and to encourage people to seek to achieve the greatest good, even if doing so necessitates a technical breach of the law.

The defense of necessity is considered a justification defense, as compared with an excuse defense such as duress. An action that is harmful but praiseworthy is justified, whereas an action that is harmful but ought to be forgiven may be excused. Rather than focusing on the actor's state of mind, as would be done with an excuse defense, the court with a necessity defense focuses on the value of the act. No court has ever accepted a defense of necessity to justify killing a person to protect property.

 

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