43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
ehBeth
 
  8  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 06:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
What's this bullshit about power?

Someone was killed. It is possible that he might not be dead now if the driver of the car that hit him had not made the decision to drink and drive.

If Thom had walked home (5 blocks, he could definitely have walked), or taken a cab, or not been drinking to begin with - the man that he hit would be alive.

Bullshit to government power. Someone died that didn't need to.

Bullshit to whining about government power. The constant whining is boring.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 06:18 pm
@ehBeth,
The problem is that there is no indication that a cold sober driver would not had hit the cyclist also.

Did the fact that the driver having alcohol in his blood stream had anything to do with the event or not.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 06:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
BS spread around in your attempt to avoid the obvious point.

I assume you are talking about yourself.

The obvious point you are avoiding is that the man we are discussing in this thread put himself behind the wheel of his car after he had done considerable drinking. He put himself behind that wheel knowing what the possible consequences or penalties might be for driving while impaired. He had choices--he could have consumed less alcohol, he could have taken a cab, or walked those 5 blocks home.
Quote:
Is that what you tell those who are being bullied...."just do as you are told and everything will be fine"?

No one bullied him into driving home that night. He made an irresponsible decision to drive that night, and probably numerous other nights as well, and his luck ran out that night, and now the state will hold him responsible for his actions.

The time to consider the consequences of drunk driving is not after the fact of an arrest for DUI manslaughter and leaving the scene--it's before you start your car in an impaired state.

Tragedies like this one are preventable. He should have taken a 5 block cab ride home. Let's hope others learn a lesson from this man's situation. Don't drink and drive.

ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 06:26 pm
@BillRM,
No one else was driving that car.

0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  4  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 06:27 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

The problem is that there is no indication that a cold sober driver would not had hit the cyclist also.

Did the fact that the driver having alcohol in his blood stream had anything to do with the event or not.


Holy Christ.

I don't know, why don't you and chickenhawk contact the family of the dead man and tell them about how this is all about government power, and may have happened even if the driver was stone sober.

You two are so ******* sick.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 06:28 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Bullshit to whining about government power. The constant whining is boring


I dont consider it my job to entertain you.

Using different words than Firefly does not improve the effort to avoid justifying the current use of power by our government. I have never been impressed with Firefly's "IT'S THE LAW!" dictum that she puts out everytime the question is raised, as if this is supposed to settle the question.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 06:34 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Tragedies like this one are preventable. He should have taken a 5 block cab ride home


Of course, but the issue that I placed on the table was the reasonableness of the governments response to his bad act....both the 30 years jeopardy and the attempt to hide from the public the fact that he called the police with-in minutes and yet is still up for 15 years for not doing enough.

Why are you so opposed to the Government being questioned about its behavior? What are you afraid will happen if we citizens started to question the amount of justice in our "justice" system, is it that you are inside it and know how rotten it is?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 06:54 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The problem is that there is no indication that a cold sober driver would not had hit the cyclist also.

But other drivers didn't hit the cyclist, did they?
Quote:
Did the fact that the driver having alcohol in his blood stream had anything to do with the event or not.

Since alcohol affects perception, reaction time, night vision, coordination, concentration, and judgment, it is difficult to see how an impaired state would not have "anything to do with the event". Driving requires attention to the road ahead, to three mirrors, and to control of the car.
A BAC of .08+ does nothing to improve one's ability to do those things, it considerably diminishes them--and, after consuming 4 Long Island Iced Teas, which are each 22% more potent, and substantially larger than other cocktails, his BAC might have been considerably more than .08.
If course alcohol had something to do with the "event"--a cyclist, who had been traveling in the same direction as the car, was thrown up on this man's windshield, and his perception was so impaired he thought he hit a pedestrian--he didn't see the cyclist before he hit him, but he didn't see him at the time of impact either if he didn't realize the man was on a bike.
And alcohol likely affected his judgment to keep on driving home instead of stopping to aid the victim.

If a sober driver would not have hit the cyclist, because the cyclist was not visible, I don't think the man's lawyer would have told him he potentially faces double sentences--the lawyer would have told him that there was a good chance of having the DUI manslaughter charge thrown out, as was done in a recent Florida case.

This man is in a great deal of legal difficulty, due to his decision to drive home drunk. He should have taken a cab home that night. There are alternatives to drinking and driving.

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 07:03 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
This man is in a great deal of legal difficulty, due to his decision to drive home drunk. He should have taken a cab home that night. There are alternatives to drinking and driving.


Rosa Parks had alternatives to sitting in the back of the bus too, but that does not mean that the state was right to demand that she move. You have no point as the existence of options does not prove that justice has been obtained or that power has been properly used.


Would you care to address the issue now?
firefly
 
  6  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 07:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
Oh, go stuff it!

WE are the government and WE are the ones who have made drunk driving illegal and decided what the penalties should be. The state has a right to demand that motorists do not drive drunk--WE the people have given the state that power,

This is not about irresponsible use of government power--it is about irresponsible drivers, people who get behind the wheel of a several ton vehicle, while impaired, and kill other people.

And, right now, in the state of Washington, where you live, they are trying to raise the minimum penalties for vehicular homicide because the current penalties are only 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years.
Quote:
Prosecutors propose stiffer DUI sentences
At a Wednesday news conference to announce proposed changes to state law that would increase the punishments for vehicular homicide and vehicular assault, King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg was joined by Pierce County Prosecuting Attorney Mark Lindquist; state Rep. Christopher Hurst, D-Enumclaw; Nabila Lacey; and other families who've lost loved ones to drunken and impaired drivers.

By Sara Jean Green
Seattle Times staff reporter
December 28, 2011

A bill to be introduced in the 2012 Legislative session seeks to increase punishment for vehicular homicide and assault.

Vehicular homicide, DUI: Current penalty is 2 ½ to nearly 3 ½ years in prison; proposed penalty is 6 to 8 ½ years.

Vehicular homicide, reckless manner: For instance, speeding or racing. Current penalty is almost 2 years to 2 ¼ years; proposed penalty is 4 ¼ to 5-2/3 years.

Vehicular homicide, disregard for the safety of others: Requires a conscious awareness of unsafe driving by say, texting or talking on a cellphone. Current penalty 1 ¼ to 1-2/3 years; proposed penalty almost 2 years to 2 ¼ years.

Vehicular assault, DUI: Current penalty is 3 to 9 months; proposed penalty is 6 months to 1 year.

Nabila Lacey said her two young children spent the Christmas holiday "wishing for a gift they couldn't have."

That gift was their father, Steven Lacey, a 43-year-old Google worker who was killed in July by a suspected drunken driver whose blood alcohol content allegedly was 0.29 percent, more than three times the legal limit of 0.08 percent.

Patrick Rexroat — who allegedly pounded his chest like a gorilla after slamming his SUV into Lacey's BMW on Northeast 85th Street in Kirkland near Interstate 405 — is being held in the King County Jail in lieu of $1 million bail. Charged with vehicular homicide and reckless driving, Rexroat, 56, of Snohomish, faces a prison sentence of 2 ½ to about 3 ½ years if convicted.

"My children are suffering," Nabila Lacey said. "... We live in a void now and I hope it doesn't happen to anyone else."

Current penalties for drivers who kill — due to alcohol or drug impairment, reckless driving, or driving with disregard for the safety of others — aren't sufficient given that the loss of life is both predictable and preventable, said King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg.

He noted that with time off for good behavior, most defendants convicted of vehicular homicide see their prison sentences reduced by a third.

At a Wednesday news conference to announce proposed changes to state law that would increase the punishments for vehicular homicide and vehicular assault, Satterberg was joined by Pierce County Prosecuting Attorney Mark Lindquist; state Rep. Christopher Hurst, D-Enumclaw; Nabila Lacey; and other families who've lost loved ones to drunken and impaired drivers.

The public officials and grieving relatives timed their announcement to precede New Year's Eve, which Satterberg called "an alcohol-themed holiday."

Noting that 170 people were killed by impaired drivers in 2010, compared with 154 slaying victims, Satterberg said: "We know by Monday, more Washington state residents will join that statistic."

Hurst, a retired police officer and the chairman of the House public-safety and emergency-preparedness committee, is sponsoring legislation in the upcoming legislative session that would make the punishment for driving drunk and killing someone equal to the punishment for manslaughter.

Under the proposed law, those convicted of vehicular homicide while driving under the influence would face prison terms of 6 to 8 ½ years, more than double the current penalties of 2 ½ to almost 3 ½ years.

He recalled rolling up on his first fatal DUI crash as a young patrol officer in Ravensdale in 1981. A woman, her daughter, and her sister were killed by a drunken driver. The woman's husband, worried because his wife and daughter were late returning home, came across the crash scene before police arrived.

"I will never forget the screams, the terror, the trauma, of this father who came across his wife and daughter in that car," said Hurst.

He said at the time that local politicians and community leaders warned that Hurst would end up dead in a ditch if he continued going after drunken drivers.

Busting drunks "was not popular in 1981," and while laws and attitudes have undergone a sea change, Hurst said, stiffer penalties represent "one of the last chapters in something that started several decades ago."

"A couple years in jail is not appropriate for the devastation that you cause," Hurst said.

Lindquist, who hopes the tougher penalties will serve as a deterrent, said the toughest thing prosecutors have to do "is explain to a family why a sentence doesn't feel like justice. ... It feels like a slap on the wrist
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017113813_duilaw29m.html


You have a beef with stiffer penalties for DUI, than stop whining here and contact your elected state officials and voice your objections to them--WE are the government.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 07:42 pm
@firefly,
Sorry Firefly but as a night cyclist myself I am very very aware of the possibility of sharing the roadways in the middle of the night with a cyclist way beyond most drivers.

Even given that I had been surprised coming upon a bike in the roadway with almost no warning any numbers of times.

A bike without lights at night on the roadways is an accident waiting to happen sober drivers or not on the same roadways.

The problem worry me enough that I consist carrying five dollars LED flashers to give out to such cyclists and in one very bad area for unlit cyclists I contact the local police department and suggested they pressure the cyclists to buy lights as the law required.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 08:12 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
I remember reading about a case of a man who was stopped at a traffic light and hit in the rear by a DUI driver who die as a result.


I don't believe that.
chai2
 
  4  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 08:15 pm
@firefly,
Oh firefly, don't even bother with those 2.

Idiots trying to make it seem as if it was the governments fault some man died.
They're nothing but hot air, arm chair quarterbacks.
If they were face to face with the families involved, they'd back right down like the chickenshit douchebags they are.

chickhawk makes everything the governments fault. BillR is a stupid bully.

Ignore them, I'm going to.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 08:34 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
chickhawk makes everything the governments fault. BillR is a stupid bully.


How many thousands of miles had your cycle at night my friend?
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 08:37 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I don't believe that.


Who care what you believe or does not believe as after all no US sailors paid with their lives to meet your nation needs before dec 7 1942 either.

You are a proven fool.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 09:14 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
chickhawk makes everything the governments fault. BillR is a stupid bully.


How many thousands of miles had your cycle at night my friend?


what difference does that make?
and...you're not my friend.

You're an arrogant blowhard, and back on ignore.

You're also drunk posting
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 09:18 pm
@BillRM,
Sorry Dec 7 1941 not 1942 the happiest day in Churchill life without question.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 09:22 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
what difference does that make?
and...you're not my friend.

You're an arrogant blowhard, and back on ignore.

You're also drunk posting


The difference is that I know a hell of a lot more about night cycling then you will ever dream of and had done it safety for thousands of miles over the years in one of the most dangerous cities in the US to cycle in.

Drunk???? Let see the last drink I had was a rum and coke was four days ago.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 09:26 pm
@BillRM,
dec 7 1942 ?

You mean the day of the attack on Pearl Harbor? Which was Dec 7th, 1941.
Quote:
You are a proven fool.

You must have been looking in the mirror when you said that. Laughing

Want to tell us more about the "froggies" who can cause you to run into a bike even when no one has been drinking or driving.Laughing
Quote:
you do not need to be drinking or driving on a froggies night to run into a bike.


Posting while drunk Drunk isn't very cool, BillRM. You're hardly sharp to begin with, so you can't afford to be any more impaired than your natural state.

Were you doing all that biking because you lost your driver's license due to a DUI? Rolling Eyes


JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 09:28 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
You're an arrogant blowhard, and back on ignore.


And you are supposed to be an adult, Chai. Quit throwing around the 'ignore' BS like a 6 year old in a sandbox.
0 Replies
 
 

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