43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 12:58 pm
@firefly,
Given all the energy you personally expend arguing your positions on A2K your claim that arguing positions on A2K is pointless is an obvious bold faced lie. However I am well aware that expecting you to ever demonstrate honesty is probably pointless, cause it ain't never going to happen.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 01:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Given all the energy you personally expend arguing your positions on A2K your claim that arguing positions on A2K is pointless is an obvious bold faced lie

I really don't argue "positions" very often at all. Mainly, in threads like this one and others, I'm simply discussing already existing laws, and trying to make sure that the actual laws are understood. You're the one who is obsessed with trying to win arguments, not me, and you significantly distort, or actually fabricate, my remarks so you can construct a straw-man to argue against.

And I've expended considerable real life time and energy in real life social and political activism, which is why I know individuals can affect change--I've seen it happen, which is why I find your incessant whining quite juvenile. If I don't like something in the real world, I try to change it--in the real world. I like discussing issues on A2K, but I don't kid myself, as you do, that doing that sort of thing is going to actually accomplish change in the real world or that participating in threads is a really meaningful activity--this is a diversion, and nothing more than that. It's only your grandiosity that makes you think all your posturing on A2K threads amounts to something.

If you don't think we need traffic laws, including DUI laws, and that those laws must be enforced, you aren't dealing with reality, and you are just using another thread to have a platform to continue your usual whine about feeling victimized and abused. No one will ever accuse you of having new ideas or better proposals or well thought out alternatives--on that score you draw a complete blank.
Quote:
2009 National Statistics
> 33,808 people were killed in traffic accidents. 10,839 of these deaths was a result of alcohol (32% of all traffic deaths)
> An additional 254,000 suffered injuries due to an alcohol related accident
> Drunk drivers kill someone approximately every 48 minutes
> High BAC drivers (.15% and higher) account for more then half of all deaths in alcohol related accidents
> 181 children age 14 and younger died in alcohol related accidents in 2009. Over half (92) were riding WITH THE ALCOHOL IMPAIRED DRIVER!
> In 2009 1.4 million people were arrested for driving under the influence. This is less than 1% of the amount self reported by adults. (147 million self reported episodes of drunk driving)
> An average drunk driver will drive drunk 87 times before being pulled over!
> Drunk driving costs each adult in this country around $500 a year
http://www.examiner.com/article/drunk-driving-the-carnage-continues


Drunk driving is a significant problem on our roads--it results in over 10,000 deaths a year, and considerably more injuries. I've yet to hear you propose effective ways of dealing with that problem.

BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 02:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Given all the energy you personally expend arguing your positions on A2K your claim that arguing positions on A2K is pointless is an obvious bold faced lie. However I am well aware that expecting you to ever demonstrate honesty is probably pointless, cause it ain't never going to happen.


Could not agree with you more...............
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 03:50 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Drunk driving is a significant problem on our roads-


says you...in 2010 there was a one in 27,509 chance that I would die by drunk driving. I am supposed to forfeit my freedom to knock those odds down some? The drunk driving stats include those who kill themselves by drunk driving, which is their own ******* fault so I dont care, strip those idiots out and my chances of getting killed by a drunk driver in 2010 had to be somewhere around 1/75,000 at worst. This is not enough for me to worry much about.

Now in 1980 my chances were 1/10,820, a little more problematic. Drunk driving is rape all over again, something that was once a legit problem worthy of effort to cut down where the efforts have run amuck. Those who have adopted these causes will not rest till not a single person is effected by them, and they are willing to abuse the rest of us to get there. They are the dictionary definition of unhinged fanatic, and the sensible amougst us should call them out and resist their agenda.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 04:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Interesting fact...in 2010 10228 including the drunk driver died because of drunk driving, and the CDC estimates that drunk drivers got behind the wheel 112 million times in 2010. These means there was one death per about 11,000 drunk driving trips.

Seriously, this is something which is supposed to get me all worked up? Especially when a lot, perhaps the majority of those killed, where the idiots themselves??!!

"NEXT ALLEGED BIG PROBLEM PLEASE, I HAVE NO TIME FOR THIS PRATTLE!"

http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-driving/drunk-driving-fatalities-national-statistics

http://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/drinkinganddriving/

Thoms odds of making it home without killing anyone were damn good. He however had the misfortune to run across a fellow drunk on a bicycle at night in the fog, likely an illegal bike at that.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 04:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye do not forget that the level for "drunk" driving had been placed so low that it take road blocks and careful checks to find most of these "drunks" as their driving is not degraded to the point that it can be spotted on the road.

It take will over the legal limit to be spotted due to bad driving and all the manpower being tied up on roadblocks would be far better employ looking for the 1.2 BAC and above drivers on the road that are the real high level dangers.

Even the states know this that is the reason that many having two levels of punishment for DUI depending on the BAC levels.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 04:59 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Hawkeye do not forget that the level for "drunk" driving had been placed so low that it take road blocks and careful checks to find most of these "drunks" as their driving is not degraded to the point that it can be spotted on the road.


Sure, but my point was more to make fools of Morgan and Boy Toy who insinuate that a person who gets behind the wheel drunk can pretty much expect to kill somebody as Thom has allegedly done. Using the governments own numbers we see that I can expect to only kill one person in 11,000 drunk driving attempts, likely that would be me. I know that hysterics are all the rage these days, but I would rather chart my course based upon facts. This makes me odd, I know.

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 05:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
Wait.....excellent point Bill! (I had not thought of that) Like with rape the recent numbers are inflated because the definitions have been charged. Drunk driving is relatively speaking currently even less of a problem than the numbers indicate.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 06:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Like with rape the recent numbers are inflated...

Try thinking about human beings, not numbers. The numbers reflect human lives. In 2009, over a quarter of a million people were injured in alcohol related automobile accidents--hardly an insignificant number, beside the over 10,000 who were killed.

You want to deny that drunk driving is a significant problem, go right ahead.

You want to exercize your "freedom" to drive drunk, go right ahead.

Go right ahead and prove what an asshole you are--as if there was any doubt of that in the minds of most people at A2K.

Thanks for demonstrating so clearly that you can't hold your own in an intelligent adult discussion of a topic. All you're capable of doing is whining like a 15 year old, an immature 15 year old to boot.



hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 06:36 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Thanks for demonstrating so clearly that you can't hold your own in an intelligent adult discussion of a topic. All you're capable of doing is whining like a 15 year old, an immature 15 year old to boot.


I choose to not stick to the script which has been force-fed me...I am one of them independent thinkers which annoy you so much. I let the facts take me where they may, I am interested in where the truth is, not in breathing life into my preconceived ideas or your political agenda.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 06:47 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Hawkeye do not forget that the level for "drunk" driving had been placed so low that it take road blocks and careful checks to find most of these "drunks" as their driving is not degraded to the point that it can be spotted on the road.

Or they find you after you run your car into a telephone pole or a tree.

And these people could just have easily run into another car...
Quote:
Jason Kidd arrested on drunk driving charge after accident
July 15, 2012

NEW YORK (Reuters) - NBA star Jason Kidd was arrested on suspicion of driving while intoxicated early on Sunday after his car struck a telephone pole in the Hamptons area of New York's Long Island, police said.

He pleaded not guilty to the misdemeanor, his lawyer said.

Kidd, a 10-time all-star who recently signed with the New York Knicks, was treated for minor injuries at the hospital and released from custody on his own recognizance, police said.

Kidd, 39, has played 18 years in the National Basketball Association and won an NBA championship with the 2010-2011 Dallas Mavericks.

Southampton Town Police reported receiving a call shortly before 2 a.m. about a car that struck a telephone pole and went into the woods.

"Police responded to the scene and found the driver of the vehicle, Jason Kidd, age 39 of Dallas, Texas, to be intoxicated," police said in a statement. "It was a single car accident in which Mr. Kidd was the single occupant of the 2010 Cadillac Escalade."

Eddie Burke Jr., a lawyer representing Kidd, said his client pleaded not guilty at an arraignment on Sunday. Burke declined to comment on Kidd's injuries and said he was awaiting further evidence from the investigation ahead of a September court date.

"(Kidd) is doing OK," Burke said. "He was released on his own recognizance and has to come back to court in September."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-nba-kidd-duibre86e0fx-20120715,0,761070.story


Quote:
Drunk driving crash lands Cass County man in hospital
July 15, 2012
ELKHART COUNTY – An Edwardsburg man faces drunk driving charges after a one-car crash that could have been a whole lot worse than it was.

Elkhart County police say 41-year-old Michael Strome was heading west on State Line Road west of County Road 11 when he drove his car off the shoulder of the road, then drove back on the road, crossed the centerline and hit two trees.

Police and medics were called to the scene around 11:40 Saturday night.

Strome was taken to South Bend’s Memorial Hospital where Sunday morning he was listed in good condition.

Police say Strome was wearing a seat belt, which may have prevented more serious injuries. He suffered a possible broken jaw, eye and shoulder injuries.

There’s no word what his blood alcohol level was, but the investigating officer says Operating While Intoxicated charges are pending once Strome gets out of the hospital.
http://www.wsbt.com/news/wsbt-drunk-driving-crash-lands-cass-county-man-in-hospital-20120715,0,1383971.story


Quote:

Athens woman charged with drunk driving after crashing with girl, 10, in car
July 15, 2012
By: Kimathi Lewis

A 35-year-old woman was allegedly driving drunk with a child in the car when she lost control and crashed on an Athens road Saturday.

And police found a container of alcohol in the crashed car, according to Athens-Clarke County police.

Investigators have charged Ms. Brenda Stancill, of Lexington Road, with driving under the influence, endangering a child, failure to maintain lane and open container, Sgt. Mark Anthony said.

Ms. Stancill was driving on Morton Road near Big Oak Circle when she lost control and left the roadway around 12:45 p.m., Sgt. Anthony said.

“The vehicle crossed back over the roadway and came to rest against a tree,” Sgt. Anthony said.

Ms. Stancill was transported to Athens Regional Medical Center where she was treated and later released, he said.

She was later transported to the Athens-Clarke County jail, Sgt. Anthony said.

Emergency services evaluated the 10-year-old girl at the scene for minor bruises, but she did not have to be transported, he said.
http://www.examiner.com/article/athens-woman-charged-with-drunk-driving-after-crashing-with-girl-10-car

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 06:55 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
beside the over 10,000 who were killed.


In 411 BILLION car trips just over 10,000 people die of drunk driving.

THIS is what your alleged big problem is??

http://www.bts.gov/programs/national_household_travel_survey/daily_travel.html
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 06:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
It's not your independence that's irritating, it's your narcissism, and your incessant repetition of the same four talking points.

You're worse than a birther, or a conspiracy nutcase.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 06:58 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

It's not your independence that's irritating, it's your narcissism, and your incessant repetition of the same four talking points.

You're worse than a birther, or a conspiracy nutcase.


I think otherwise, it is that I place the knife where the facts do not seem to support our beliefs. Very annoying.

I demand either acknowledgement of the facts or the be shown my error. And I am immune to manipulative attempts to shut me up, as coming from an abuse background I will never be the victim, I will never lay down and let the abuser win.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 07:05 pm
Everyone has to worry about the possibility a drunken driver might suddenly be coming at them, driving in the wrong direction, because these things do happen. I encountered that situation once, but was fortunately able to get my vehicle out of the way of the oncoming car.
Quote:

Wrong-Way LI Drunk Driver Hits Police Car

Police say Rony Santos drove west in the eastbound lane of Long Island Avenue in Wyandanch
Jul 15, 2012

Police say a drunk driver going the wrong way on a Long Island road crashed head-on into a police car. Two officers were hurt.

One of the Suffolk County police officers remained hospitalized Sunday with a cut on his head and back and shoulder injuries. The other officer has been released from a hospital after being treated for back, neck and shoulder injuries.

Police say Rony Santos drove west in the eastbound lane of Long Island Avenue in Wyandanch around 10 p.m. Saturday. They say he hit the officers' car near Wellwood Avenue.

The 42-year-old Santos was examined for minor injuries and released. He was arrested on a driving-while-intoxicated charge.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Wrong-Way-LI-Driver-Hits-Police-Car-162509426.html

Quote:

July 15, 2012
Drunk driving suspected in Canton Township wrong-way crash
By The Detroit News

Canton Township-- Police are investigating a head-on crash that injured three with two having to be airlifted to the University of Michigan hospital.

At about 3 a.m. Sunday, a woman turned from Lilley Road onto Michigan Avenue and drove against traffic, police said. She crashed into another car. The driver of that car and the woman were those airlifted. Their conditions weren't known Sunday afternoon.

A third person, a passenger, suffered minor injuries. Alcohol may have been a factor in the accident, police said.
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120715/METRO01/207150334#ixzz20k6TCu6O


hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 07:06 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Everyone has to worry about the possibility a drunken driver might suddenly be coming at them, driving in the wrong direction, because these things do happen. I encountered that situation once, but was fortunately able to get my vehicle out of the way of the oncoming car.


Worrying is a choice. Life is not risk free and never can be. Some people can deal with this reality, some can't but want to give away my freedom as they strive for their fantasy universe.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 07:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
you will always be the victim...

your inability to see the reality of your chicken little act would be funny if it weren't so damned annoying.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 07:09 pm
Quote:
Doctors Amputate The Leg of Drunk Driving Victim
Jul 15, 2012

CORPUS CHRISTI -- Surgeons removed the leg and part of the pelvis of a man hit by a drunk driver. We have an update tonight on Charlie Taylor's condition from his mother. Charlie developed a deadly bone infection that caused him so much pain he couldn't move for months. So, to stop the infection from spreading, doctors removed his right leg, hip, and part of his pelvis Friday. Surgeons got the infected bone out but, due to the amount amputated, it's very unlikely Charlie will be able to use a prosthetic. But his mother, Bonnie Taylor, isn't giving up hope. She told us, "You know me, I'm not going to give up. So we'll check into it. We'll see all we can do." Charlie was driving down NPID about two years ago when Fransisco Gonzalez hit him. A jury sentenced him to seven years in prison.
http://www.kristv.com/news/doctors-amputate-the-leg-of-drunk-driving-victim/
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 07:10 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

you will always be the victim...

your inability to see the reality of your chicken little act would be funny if it weren't so damned annoying.


What you call a chicken little act is really my far above average ability to judge risk correctly and to notice problems of importance. This life skill has served me very well.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 Jul, 2012 07:23 pm
Those alcohol related accident statistics reflect human lives, real people.

This family has been devastated by a drunk driver--a 5 time DUI offender--who was driving with a BAC level of .29.
Quote:
Identities, conditions of DUI suspect's accident victims disclosed
Family issues statement including name of unborn baby
John Fryar Longmont Times-Calltimescall.com
07/07/2012

LONGMONT -- Heather Surovik, the 27-year-old pregnant Longmont woman who lost her near-term fetus when her Pontiac sedan was struck by a suspected drunk driver on Thursday afternoon, was still in Longmont United Hospital on Saturday, according to Longmont police Cmdr. Jeff Satur.

Meanwhile, Boulder County Coroner Emma Hall said in a Saturday afternoon press release that her office "investigating the death of a baby, Brady Surovik, following a motor vehicle collision at 17th Avenue and Pace Street" on Thursday.

Hall said an autopsy had been completed, but that "the cause and manner of death are pending further investigation."

Surovik's family, in a statement it sent to Denver's 9News TV, said that "Brady Paul, the 8 pound, 12 ounce child did not survive the accident.

"Calling him a 'fetus' is offensive to our family. He was ready to be born within days and did not get that opportunity because someone that should not have been allowed to drive was behind the wheel of a vehicle," the family said in its statement.

Satur disclosed Surovik's name, and that of Terry Koester, Surovik's mother -- who was the adult passenger riding with Surovik at the time of the Thursday accident -- on Saturday morning.

Satur said Scott Koester, Surovik's father, has reported that his daughter "is making good strides toward recovery, which will be a long road, but she is alert and talking."

Terry Koester, also of Longmont, was in the passenger seat and also was injured in the accident at 17th Avenue and Pace Street, while Surovik's 5-year-old son suffered minor injuries, police have said.

As of Saturday, Terry Koester was out of the hospital, "is doing better and recovering well," Satur said. "Heather's son is doing very well and playing like a 5-year-old."

Surovik's family provided more detail in their own Saturday statement, saying that "Brady's mother was seriously injured in the accident and is still in ICU fighting her way back to us thanks to a lot of help from great nurses and doctors at LUH. His grandmother was also injured in the accident and will be having surgery to repair a broken arm and wrist the first of next week, and is recovering from her injuries. Brady's 5-year-old brother was also injured, with a bump to the head."

Satur said the family has asked that their privacy be respected.

Gary Sheats -- the 52-year-old Longmont man who was driving the Dodge Durango when it and collided with Surovik's car -- is being held in Boulder County Jail. Authorities said Sheats had a blood alcohol content that measured at .292 after the wreck that left Surovik in critical condition, her near-term fetus dead, and her mother and son injured.

Satur said Saturday evening that the police department's traffic investigators and accident reconstruction team have determined that Sheats was westbound on 17th and made a left turn onto Pace, turning in front of Surovik's eastbound vehicle.

Police have said the impact of the collision between Sheats' and Surovik's vehicles spun Surovik's sedan into a black Honda Pilot that also was traveling west on 17th, but that there were no injuries to the occupants of that third vehicle. Satur identified the Honda's driver as Martha Rudd, 68, of Longmont.

Sheats, who initially fled the scene of Thursday's accident, was later arrested in the driveway of his home in the 1200 block of Winslow Circle.

Surovik's family said in their statement that they appreciate "all of the outpouring of support, and because of those expressing desire to help in some way, a fund has been set up as 'Brady Fund' care of Howe Mortuary, 439 Coffman St., Longmont, CO 80501 to help the mother through the recovery process."

The family also expressed outrage "that this happened." They said they don't understand how Sheats, a five-time previous DUI offender, "would be allowed behind the wheel of an automobile and given the opportunity to hurt a family so deeply."

Prosecutors are scheduled to file formal charges against Sheats on Tuesday. On Friday, prosecutor Ryan Brackley said his office was waiting for Longmont police and the Boulder County Coroner's Office to complete their investigations before making a formal decision about the filing.

Brackley declined specific comment on Friday about whether the district attorney's office is considering adding a vehicular homicide charge to account for the death of the fetus, which Hall called "a baby" in her Saturday news release. Brackley said the homicide charge could be applied only if the fetus were born and then died of injuries suffered in the wreck. He said if the fetus died before birth, then the only charge his office could apply would be vehicular assault on the mother.

Satur said, "We are still seeking witnesses who may have seen this accident or spoke with or saw Gary Sheats before the accident." He asked that people call Officer Mike Stogsdill at 303-651-8501 if they have any information.
http://www.coloradodaily.com/news/ci_21024748/identities-conditions-dui-suspects-accident-victims-disclosed?source=most_viewed#ixzz20kBVb8u6
Coloradodaily.com

This is the reality of drunk driving--it's not an abstract topic, it's an all too real problem that has devasting effects on real people.
 

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