43
   

I just don’t understand drinking and driving

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 12:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
Lets review shall we the Bio of the author of the CNN piece, the one that largely follows arguments that I have been making on A2K for years

Quote:
A former federal prosecutor, Professor Paul Butler provides legal commentary for CNN, NPR, and the Fox News Network. He has been featured on 60 Minutes and profiled in the Washington Post. He has written for the Post, the Boston Globe, and the Los Angeles Times and is a law professor at George Washington University in Washington, D.C.
After graduating cum laude from both Yale and Harvard Law School, Paul Butler clerked for the Honorable Mary Johnson Lowe of the U.S. District Court in New York. He then joined the law firm of Williams & Connolly in Washington, D.C., where he specialized in white collar criminal defense and civil litigation. Following his time in private practice, Professor Butler served as a federal prosecutor with the U.S. Department of Justice, where his specialty was public corruption. His prosecutions included a U.S. Senator, three FBI agents, and several other law enforcement officials. While at the Department of Justice, Professor Butler also served as a special assistant U.S. attorney, prosecuting drug and gun cases.
He was awarded the Distinguished Faculty Service Award three times by the GW graduating class and has been a visiting professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School. In 2003, he was elected to the American Law Institute, one of America's most influential legal institutions.
His scholarship has been published in the Yale Law Journal, Harvard Law Review, Stanford Law Review, and UCLA Law Review, among other places. He has authored chapters in several books, written a column for the Legal Times, and published numerous op-ed articles, including in The Los Angeles Times, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, and The Dallas Morning News. He lectures regularly for the ABA and the NAACP, and at colleges, law schools, and community organizations throughout the U.S. Professor Butler is also a regular contributor at BlackProf.com.

http://www.letsgetfreethebook.com/aboutpaulbutler.html

Firefly's argument that I am a lone wolf idiot was never something that was believable to anyone but the gullible, but her claims look even more ridiculous now.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 02:40 pm
@hawkeye10,
I don't doubt that Paul Butler is brighter and more legally knowledgeable than you are, but I fail to see where either his, or your, comments relate to Swift's case. And Butler is a former federal prosecutor--he obviously supports and believes in the justice system--and nothing he said supports your thinking. He's not talking about the state seeking vengeance because a defendant went to trial, after being offered a very generous plea deal--he simply gave his opinion that prosecutors don't like it when they have to go to trial after making such a generous offer.
You can't even understand the material you read or post. The state won their case, with a jury verdict, of course they are going to seek penalties harsher than what was offered in a plea deal--they now have the justification of a jury verdict for seeking such penalties.

Commenting on a jury verdict, in a totally unrelated legal matter, is irrelevant in this thread--which thread, I hate to tell you, is not about you.
Quote:
Bullshit, when juries cant be trusted to arrive at justice and then the penalty for trying a jury are extreme because pissed off prosecutors will routinely seek vengeance for being made to present the case to a jury the actual provable guilt is a small consideration in the evaluation on whether to seek a trail or not.

That sentence is so nonsensical it's worthy of your buddy, BillRM. Laughing Try and see if you can figure out what you are saying. Laughing

But, if you don't trust juries to "arrive at justice", and you think all prosecutors are "tyrants" who abuse and "hammer citizens", and all defense attorneys are "shyster lawyers" who do "a song and dance" to earn a "payday", your cynicism and paranoia regarding the justice system apparently render you incapable of any objective evaluation, of any legal case or legal matter, because your thinking is so warped and distorted to begin with.

The upshot of your crazy thinking, since you trust no one but yourself, would be that you should be the sole arbiter of "justice"--you'll decide the laws, when to press charges, and you will be the one to hand down the verdict. Talk about grandiosity. Rolling Eyes It's simply that you are so paranoid you see conspiracies everywhere, you don't really understand the criminal justice system or the legal process, you don't trust anyone, and you think you know better than everyone else. Meanwhile, you don't read or understand actual laws, you never go to sit in actual courtrooms, or watch entire trials on TV, but you laughingly think you know all about the "justice" system.

You don't even seem to know that this thread is about a man charged with DUI manslaughter/leaving the scene, and not about invasion of privacy or bias crimes.



hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 02:48 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You can't even understand the material you read or post.


We can parse the sentences he used to arrive at his meaning if you like, as if we take you at your word that you have misunderstood the highlighted passage then you must read at around the third grade level....you must need the help.

The other option is that you are lying again.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 02:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
Someone who posts gibberish like this shouldn't dare comment on anyone else's literacy level--or on legal matters either.
Quote:
Bullshit, when juries cant be trusted to arrive at justice and then the penalty for trying a jury are extreme because pissed off prosecutors will routinely seek vengeance for being made to present the case to a jury the actual provable guilt is a small consideration in the evaluation on whether to seek a trail or not.

Pray tell, what are the penalties for "trying a jury"? Rolling Eyes Juries get tried? Rolling Eyes

I understand the topic of this thread. You apparently don't.

Swift is charged with DUI manslaughter/leaving the scene.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 03:01 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Hmm you can not read as I consider that a so call justice system insane on it face that pressure people not to go to trial as to do so is to risk decades in prison due to overcharging compare to no prison time if you roll over to the state and admitted guilt whether you are guilty or not.


I can read, you can't write.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 03:04 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Pray tell, what are the penalties for "trying a jury"? Juries get tried?


The penalty is for trying to get justice from a jury, because if the try fails (guilt is the determination) the state will ream you for making them put on a trial. I am assuming here that an innocent man is being subjected to a hanging, as was the case in the "gay guy killed himself so someone must pay a penalty" case.

Quote:
Swift is charged with DUI manslaughter/leaving the scene.


the American "Justice" system systematically and routinely fails to deliver, the exact charges leveled at the defendant hardly matters in the chances of it working.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 03:09 pm
@izzythepush,
BillRM is also another one who doesn't understand that the defense attorney's job is to get excessive or inappropriate charges thrown out, and that the judge must agree that the charges are justified.

These people think prosecutors operate in a vacuum.

In the case we are discussing in this thread, Swift may well prefer a good plea deal to going to trial. Many DUI cases have such strong evidence in favor of guilt, a defense attorney may have a hard time raising reasonable doubt in juror's minds.

BillRM apparently never believes that some people are guilty as charged.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 03:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
the exact charges leveled at the defendant hardly matters in the chances of it working.

That jury convicted on the exact charges. And they didn't convict on all the charges.
Quote:
. I am assuming here that an innocent man is being subjected to a hanging, as was the case in the "gay guy killed himself so someone must pay a penalty"

Well, you're assuming wrong. He was not innocent. He did violate his roommate's privacy, and the roommate's sexual orientation was very much a factor in the crime. Those were the charges on which he was convicted.

You still don't get it--this has nothing to do with Swift's case.


hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 03:16 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
These people think prosecutors operate in a vacuum.


They operate under limited supervision of the people, many if not most of whom care more about extracting vengeance then they do about justice, and under the eye of judges, whom are likewise representatives of the state under weak supervision from the people. The vacuum is not perfect, but this is a good word to use to describe the situation. It is well past time for all good citizens to wake up, and to deal with this abuse that is being carried out under our authority and in our name.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 03:18 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You still don't get it--this has nothing to do with Swift's case.

Pointing at evidence that that the state can not be trusted to deliver justice is the most relevant thing that has been said in this thread about the Swift case.....
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 03:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
They operated under limited supervision of the people...

Sure, right, that's why courtrooms are open to the public, so that the people can watch their prosecutors in action. That's "limited supervision" in action.Laughing
Quote:
under the eye of judges, whom are likewise representatives of the state under weak supervision from the people...

You mean the judges that the people elect? Laughing

Your paranoia is just absurd. You are ignorant of what actually does on in our courtrooms, so you assume everyone else is too. Silly boy. Laughing
Quote:
Pointing at evidence that that the state can not be trusted to deliver justice is the most relevant thing that has been said in this thread about the Swift case.....

Duh...it's the jury that delivered the verdict. The state simply presented its case, just as the defense did. The jury then rendered a verdict. Silly boy, don't you understand the function of juries in our legal system?. Laughing

You have no idea what's going on in Swift's case. Have you sat in the courtroom during any of his hearings?

izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 03:35 pm
@firefly,
What they're saying, is that if you take the case of two people who are equally guilty, and one pleads guilty and saving the cost of a trial, while the other says he's innocent, but found is guilty at great expense to the taxpayer, they should both receive the same sentence. That's clearly ridiculous, there should be some reward for accepting resposibilty for your actions.

This all boils down to the fact that Bill had to cop a plea for some violent anti-social behaviour, and he insists it's all to do with money not guilt. That's bollocks.

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 04:59 pm
As good an explanation as I have heard for our collective silence about our unjust "justice" system
Quote:
If the ugliness seems puzzling to you, it doesn’t to psychologists who have examined this phenomenon. It’s a form of denial, they say: Deep down, people understand that all lives are fragile, that we are all capable of momentary mistakes or misjudgments that could destroy us. We don’t want to face this terrifying fact. So we must convince ourselves that the people to whom it happens are unlike us. To sustain our delusion of safety, we must make them monsters.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/another-child-dies-in-a-hot-car-and-gene-weingarten-asks-why-was-this-a-crime/2012/03/14/gIQAXm01ES_story.html?tid=pm_pop

Our SAFETY! fetish strikes again....

Quote:
And that’s the crux of this issue: Should these cases — where there is no intent to harm and no additional contributory negligence such as substance abuse; where the event was triggered entirely by a lapse of memory — be treated as crimes?

Nationally, there is no consensus. According to statistics compiled for The Washington Post by Kids and Cars, a child-safety advocacy group, in roughly 40 percent of these cases, the death is declared accidental and no charges are filed. The other 60 percent — with nearly identical facts, and under nearly identical state laws — are aggressively prosecuted on charges ranging from child neglect to murder.

The second choice is the more expedient — the one less likely to subject a prosecutor to public criticism for being too lenient. It is also the choice that further torments a devastated family at precisely the time it so desperately needs to grieve. It can have insidious consequences. The husband or wife who is trying to find the ability to forgive a spouse’s terrible mistake must also try to forgive the financial ruin that a legal defense can bring.


AKA career advancement for the prosecutor takes priority over justice 60% of the time.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 05:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The other option is that you are lying again.


Count my vote in she lying column and what is so annoying is she had so must contempt for the readers on this websites she seems to be of the opinion that she can get away with such lies and that they serve her purposes.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 05:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
I wonder how many of the posters here that what Ravi head for example would wish similar punishments given to a son or a daughter who played a mean and misguide plank that sadly trigger a suicide?

Amazing no one can placed themselves in Ravi shoes as once more we are not talking about someone with either adult judgment or hate in his heart just a kid who used bad judgment that sadly trigger a suicide.

Lovely having such crazy laws.

Sorry it is not so must the laws are crazy as how we had been allowing them to be apply.

No logic no commonsense is needed in the case of someone who BAC is equal or greater then .08 as if there is a death even if not the driver fault let hang him anyway and if there is a unpredictable suicide after a mean plank let hang the author of that plank without looking at the total situation.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 07:55 pm
@izzythepush,
They are two clowns who don't realize how absurd they sound. BillRM is now talking about "planks", and before Hawkeye was talking about "the penalty for trying a jury". Laughing

First they carry on that people should have jury trials, rather than accept plea deals, then they carry on when they don't like the jury verdicts. Laughing There is no logic operating with either of them.

Neither of them has addressed the actual problem of drunk driving in this thread at all.

If Swift hadn't been DUI that night, he wouldn't be in legal difficulty right now.

All people have to do is not drink and drive. That's too complicated for BillRM and Hawkeye to grasp. Laughing
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 08:11 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
They are two clowns who don't realize how absurd they sound. BillRM is now talking about "planks", and before Hawkeye was talking about "the penalty for trying a jury


Right, I am agreeing with Professor Butler. If you think the claim is absurd you are as always free to rebut it. You may also take the issue up with the one who first suggested it...Professor Butler, a former Federal Prosecutor.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 10:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Right, I am agreeing with Professor Butler. If you think the claim is absurd you are as always free to rebut it

You talked about the "penalty for trying a jury". Laughing

Defendants are tried, cases are tried, juries are never tried Laughing, nor is there a "penalty for trying a jury". Laughing

Butler never talked about a "penalty for trying a jury"--he'd think you are nuts. And he'd be right. Laughing That's a nonsensical statement.

Maybe you should discuss "planks" with BillRM--the two of you are a good pair...of clowns. Laughing

Meanwhile, if Swift hadn't been DUI that night, he wouldn't be in his current legal difficulties. The way to avoid problems of that sort is not to break the law.
Just don't drink and drive.

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Mar, 2012 10:16 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
, nor is there a "penalty for trying a jury"


Compare the plea offered with what he ends up with, and then tell me that again, please.

Quote:
Butler never talked about a "penalty for trying a jury


She he did, but he did not use those exact words, which accounts for your confusion.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2012 12:15 am
@hawkeye10,
We had turn our whole criminal justice system into a system of let make a deal and it a damn shame.


The Case Against
Plea Bargaining

B Y T IMOTHY L YNCH

Cato Institute

Pinate the administration of justice in America.
According to one legal scholar, “Every two sec-
onds during a typical workday, a criminal case
is disposed of in an American courtroom by
way of a guilty plea or nolo contendere plea.”
Even though plea bargaining pervades the
justice system, I argue that the practice should be abolished
because it is unconstitutional.

THE RISE AND FALL OF ADVERSARIAL TRIALS

Because any person who is accused of violating the criminal
law can lose his liberty, and perhaps even his life depending on
the offense and prescribed penalty, the Framers of the Consti-
tution took pains to put explicit limits on the awesome pow-
ers of government. The Bill of Rights explicitly guarantees sev-
eral safeguards to the accused, including the right to be
informed of the charges, the right not to be compelled to
incriminate oneself, the right to a speedy and public trial, the
right to an impartial jury trial in the state and district where the
offense allegedly took place, the right to cross-examine the
state’s witnesses, the right to call witnesses on one’s own behalf,
and the right to the assistance of counsel.
Justice Hugo Black once noted that, in America, the defen-
dant “has an absolute, unqualified right to compel the State to
investigate its own case, find its own witnesses, prove its own
facts, and convince the jury through its own resources.
Throughout the process, the defendant has a fundamental right
to remain silent, in effect challenging the State at every point
to ‘Prove it!’” By limiting the powers of the police and prose-
cutors, the Bill of Rights safeguards freedom.
Given the Fifth Amendment’s prohibition of compelled
self-incrimination and the Sixth Amendment’s guarantee of

Timothy Lynch is director of the Cato Institute’s Project on Criminal Justice. He can be

contacted by e-mail at [email protected].

R EG U L AT IO N F A L L 2 0 0 3

lea bargaining has come to dom-impartial juries, one would think that the administration of criminal justice in America would be marked by adversarial
trials — and yet, the opposite is true. Fewer than 10 percent
of the criminal cases brought by the federal government each
year are actually tried before juries with all of the accompanying procedural safeguards noted above. More than 90 per-
cent of the criminal cases in America are never tried, much less
proven, to juries. The overwhelming majority of individuals
who are accused of crime forgo their constitutional rights and
plead guilty.

The rarity of jury trials is not the result of criminals who
come into court to relieve a guilty conscience or save taxpayers the costs of a trial. The truth is that government officials have deliberately engineered the system to assure that the jury trial system established by the Constitution is seldom used. And plea bargaining is the primary technique used by the government to bypass the institutional safeguards in trials.
Plea bargaining consists of an agreement (formal or informal) between the defendant and the prosecutor. The prosecutor typically agrees to a reduced prison sentence in return for the defendant’s waiver of his co stitutional right against selfincrimination and his right to trial. As one critic has written,
“The leniency is payment to a defendant to induce him or her
not to go to trial. The guilty plea or no contest plea is the quid
pro quo for the concession; there is no other reason.”
Plea bargaining unquestionably alleviates the workload of
judges, prosecutors, and defense lawyers. But is it proper for a
government that is constitutionally required to respect the right
to trial by jury to use its charging and sentencing powers to
pressure an individual to waive that right? There is no doubt
that government officials deliberately use their power to pres-
sure people who have been accused of crime, and who are pre-
sumed innocent, to confess their guilt and waive their right to
a formal trial. We know this to be true because prosecutors
freely admit that this is what they do.

Watershed precedent Paul Lewis Hayes, for example, was indicted for attempting to pass a forged check in the amount of $88.30,
an offense that was punishable by a prison term of two to 10
years. The prosecutor offered to recommend a sentence of five
years if Hayes would waive his right to trial and plead guilty to
the charge. The prosecutor also made it clear to Hayes that if he
did not plead guilty and “save the court the inconvenience and
necessity of a trial,” the state would seek a new indictment from
a grand jury under Kentucky’s “Habitual Criminal Act.” Under
the provisions of that statute, Hayes would face a mandatory sen-
tence of life imprisonment because of his prior criminal record.
Despite the enormous pressure exerted upon him by the state,
Hayes insisted on his right to jury trial. He was subsequently con-
victed and then sentenced to life imprisonment.

On appeal, Hayes argued that the prosecutor violated the
Constitution by threatening to punish him for simply invok-
ing his right to a trial. In response, the government freely admit-
ted that the only reason a new indictment was filed against
Hayes was to deter him from exercising that right. Because the
indictment was supported by the evidence, the government
maintained that the prosecutor had done nothing improper.
The case ultimately reached the U.S. Supreme Court for a res-
olution. In a landmark 5–4 ruling, Bordenkircher v. Hayes, the
Court approved the prosecutor’s handling of the case and
upheld the draconian sentence of life imprisonment. Because
the 1978 case is considered to be the watershed precedent for
plea bargaining, it deserves careful attention.
The Hayes ruling acknowledged that it would be “patently
unconstitutional” for any agent of the
government “to pursue a course of
action whose objective is to penalize a
person’s reliance on his legal rights.”
The Court, however, declined to over-
turn Hayes’s sentence because he
could have completely avoided the risk
of life imprisonment by admitting his
guilt and accepting a prison term of
five years. The constitutional rationale
for plea bargaining is that there is “no
element of punishment or retaliation
so long as the accused is free to accept
or reject the prosecution’s offer.”

WHY THE SUPREME COURT
WAS WRONG

Initially, the Court’s proposition in
Hayes seems plausible because crimi-
nal defendants have always been
allowed to waive their right to a trial,
and the executive and legislative
branches have always had discretion
with respect to their charging and sen-
tencing policies. But a closer inspec-
tion will show that the constitutional
rationale underlying plea bargaining
cannot withstand scrutiny.
First, it is important to note that
the existence of some element of
choice has never been thought to jus-
tify otherwise wrongful conduct. As
the Supreme Court itself observed in
another context, “It always is for the
interest of a party under duress to
choose the lesser of two evils. But the
fact that a choice was made according
to interest does not exclude duress. It
is the characteristic of duress prop-
erly so called.”
The courts have employed similar
reasoning in tort disputes between
private parties. For example, a

R EG U L AT IO N F A L L 2 0 0 3

woman brought a false imprisonment action against a male
acquaintance after he allegedly forced her to travel with him in
his automobile when it was her desire to travel by train. Accord-
ing to the complaint, the man boarded the train, seized the
woman’s purse, and then disembarked and proceeded to his
car. The woman then left the train to retrieve her purse. While
arguing with the man in the parking lot, the train left the sta-
tion. Reluctantly, the woman got into the vehicle to travel to her
destination. The man maintained that the false imprisonment
claim lacked merit because he exercised no physical force
against the woman and because she was at liberty to remain on
the train or to go her own way. The court rejected that defense
and ruled that the false imprisonment theory had merit
because the woman did not wish to leave the train and she did
not wish to depart without her purse. The man unlawfully
interfered with the woman’s liberty to be where she wished to

LAW

criticize a politician and then to deny that politician a “right to
equal space” in the paper to defend himself against such criticism.
Even though Florida newspapers remained free to say whatever
they wished, the Court recognized that the statute exacted a “penal-
ty” for the simple exercise of free speech about political affairs.
Finally, the ad hoc nature of the Hayes precedent becomes
apparent when one extends its logic to other rights involving
criminal procedure. The Court has never proffered a satisfactory explanation with respect to why the government should
not be able to use its sentencing powers to leverage the waiver of constitutional rights pertaining to the trial itself. Can federal prosecutors enter into “negotiations” with criminal defendants with respect to the exercise of their trial rights? For
example, when a person is accused of a crime, he has the option
of hiring an experienced attorney to prepare a legal defense on
his behalf or representing himself without the aid of counsel.

Plea bargaining rests on the constitutional fiction that
our government does not retaliate against individuals
who wish to exercise their right to trial by jury.

be. The fact that the man had given the woman some choices
that she could “accept or reject” did not alter the fact that the
man was a tortfeasor.
Second, the Supreme Court has repeatedly invalidated cer-
tain governmental actions that were purposely designed to
coerce individuals and organizations into surrendering their
constitutional rights. In the 1978 case Marshall v. Barlow’s Inc.,
the Court ruled that a businessman was within his rights when
he refused to allow an Occupational Safety and Health Admin-
istration inspector into his establishment without a search war-
rant. The secretary of labor filed a legal brief arguing that when
people make the decision to go into business, they essentially
“consent” to governmental inspections of their property. Even
though the owner of the premises could have avoided such
inspections by shutting down his business, the Court recog-
nized that the osha regulations penalized commercial prop-
erty owners for exercising their right under the Fourth Amend-
ment to insist that government inspectors obtain search
warrants before demanding access to the premises.
In the 1978 case Nollan v. California Coastal Commission, the
Court ruled that the state of California could not grant a devel-
opment permit subject to the condition that the landowners
allow the public an easement across a portion of their proper-
ty. Even though the landowners had the option of “accepting
or rejecting” the Coastal Commission’s deal, the Court recog-
nized that the permit condition, in the circumstances of that
case, amounted to an “out-and-out plan of extortion.”
Similarly, in the 1974 case Miami Herald Publishing Co. v. Tornil-
lo, the Supreme Court invalidated a so-called “right of reply”
statute. The Florida legislature made it a crime for a newspaper to

R EG U L AT IO N F A L L 2 0 0 3

Can a prosecutor induce a defendant into waiving his right to
the assistance of counsel with a recommendation for lenien-
cy in the event of a conviction? Such prosecutorial tactics are
presently unheard of. And yet, under the rationale of the Hayes
case, it is not obvious why such tactics should be constitu-
tionally barred. After all, under Hayes there is no element of
punishment or retaliation so long as the accused is free to
accept or reject the prosecutor’s offer.

Sophistry to pretend otherwise Plea bargaining rests on the

constitutional fiction that our government does not retaliate
against individuals who wish to exercise their right to trial by
jury. Although the fictional nature of that proposition has been
apparent to many for some time now, what is new is that more
and more people are reaching the conclusion that it is intoler-
able. Chief Judge William G. Young of the Federal District Court
in Massachusetts, for example, recently filed an opinion that
was refreshingly candid about what is happening in the mod-
ern criminal justice system:

Evidence of sentencing disparity visited on those who exer-
cise their Sixth Amendment right to trial by jury is today
stark, brutal, and incontrovertible.… Today, under the
Sentencing Guidelines regime with its vast shift of power to
the Executive, that disparity has widened to an incredible 500
percent. As a practical matter this means, as between two
similarly situated defendants, that if the one who pleads and
cooperates gets a four-year sentence, then the guideline sen-
tence for the one who exercises his right to trial by jury and is
convicted will be 20 years. Not surprisingly, such a disparity

imposes an extraordinary burden on the free exercise of the
right to an adjudication of guilt by one’s peers. Criminal trial
rates in the United States and in this District are plummeting
due to the simple fact that today we punish people— punish
them severely — simply for going to trial. It is the sheerest
sophistry to pretend otherwise.

SANDEFUR’S CHALLENGE

Attorney Timothy Sandefur, whose comments follow this arti-
cle, concedes that plea bargaining is “rife with unfair prosecu-
torial tactics” and needs “reform.” But he rejects the proposi-
tion that plea bargaining is unconstitutional. Let us examine
Sandefur’s defense of plea bargaining.
First, everyone acknowledges that the state may not punish
or penalize a person for simply invoking a right that is sup-
posed to be guaranteed under the Constitution. And yet, this
is precisely what the government does with plea bargaining. For
example, every month police officers in Washington, D.C.
encounter tourists who are carrying handguns. The tourists are
unaware of the District’s strict laws against handgun posses-
sion. They regularly surrender handguns to police officers who
are supervising metal detectors at museums around the capi-
tal. When the tourists openly surrender their firearms, they
mistakenly believe that they are doing nothing illegal. The gun
is then confiscated and the tourist is arrested. If a tourist agrees
to forgo a trial and plead guilty, prosecutors do not request jail
time. However, if a tourist were to seek a jury trial, prosecutors
would respond with additional charges, such as possession of
illegal ammunition (conceivably, a count for each bullet in the
pistol chamber). Not surprisingly, 99.9 percent of the tourists
decide to plead guilty.
Sandefur argues that, in such cases criminal defendants are
not being punished for a refusal to bargain; they are instead
being punished for “violating the law.” According to Sandefur,
the tourists have no right to complain because they have no
“right to leniency.” That line of argument has surface appeal,
but it is defective. The logical fallacy of division says that what
may be true for the whole is not necessarily true for the parts.
Thus, a prosecutor can indeed “throw the book” at any given
tourist. However, if it came to light that the prosecutor was tar-
geting, say, Hispanics for harsher treatment, we would know
that something was very wrong. The retort that Hispanic
arrestees do not have a “right to leniency” would be an unsat-
isfying defense of the prosecutor’s handling of such cases. Plea
bargaining tactics fail for similar, though perhaps more subtle,
reasons. Just because the state can throw the book at someone
does not mean that it can use its power to retaliate against a per-
son who wishes to exercise his right to a trial.
Sandefur’s defense of plea bargaining repeatedly returns to
the idea that criminal defendants have the “right to make a con-
tract,” as in other free-trade situations. But plea bargaining is
not free trade. It is a forced association. Once a person has been
charged with a crime, he does not have the option of walking
away from the state.
Sandefur argues that because individuals can waive many of
their constitutional rights, they can also “sell” their rights. Even
if that argument had merit, it is not the law. But, more impor-

tantly, one suspects that it is not the law because the argument
lacks merit. Imagine four people who are charged with auto
theft. One defendant pleads guilty to the offense and receives
three years of jail time. The second defendant insists upon a trial,
but sells his right to call his own witnesses. After conviction, he
receives four years. The third defendant insists on a trial, but sells
his right to be represented by his famous attorney-uncle, F. Lee
Bailey. Instead, he hires a local attorney and, in addition, sells his
right to a speedy trial. After conviction, he receives five years.
The fourth insists upon a trial, presents a rigorous but unsuc-
cessful defense and, after conviction, receives a prison sentence
of 10 years. Are the disparate punishments for the same offense
sensible? The courtroom just does not seem to be the proper
place for an auction and haggling.
The constitutional defect with plea bargaining is systemic,
not episodic. The rarity of jury trials is not the result of some
spontaneous order spawned by contract negotiations between
individuals.

CONCLUSION

Thomas Jefferson famously observed that “the natural
progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain
ground.” The American experience with plea bargaining is yet
another confirmation of that truth. The Supreme Court
unleashed a runaway train when it sanctioned plea bargain-
ing in Bordenkircher v. Hayes. Despite a steady media diet of titillating criminal trials in recent years, there is an increasing
recognition that jury trials are now a rarity in America — and
that something, somewhere, is seriously amiss. That “some-
thing” is plea bargaining.
As with so many other areas of constitutional law, the Court
must stop tinkering around the edges of the issue and return
to first principles. It is true that plea bargaining speeds caseload
disposition, but it does so in an unconstitutional manner. The
Framers of the Constitution were aware of less time-consum-
ing trial procedures when they wrote the Bill of Rights, but
chose not to adopt them. The Framers believed the Bill of
Rights, and the freedom it secured, was well worth any costs
that resulted. If that vision is to endure, the Supreme Court
R
must come to its defense.

R E A D I N G S

• “Ad Hoc Plea Bargaining,” by Joseph Colquitt. Tulane Law

Review, Vol. 75 (2001).



Escape of the Guilty, by Ralph Adam Fine. New York, N.Y.:
Dodd, Mead, 1987.



Plea Bargaining’s Triumph, by George Fisher. Stanford, Calif.,
Stanford University Press, 2003.



“Torture and Plea Bargaining,” by John H. Langbein. The
Public Interest, Winter 1980.



The Tyranny of Good Intentions, by Paul Craig Roberts and
Lawrence M. Stratton. New York, N.Y.: Prima Publishing, 2000

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