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Why are paradoxes considered profound?

 
 
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 06:18 pm
Is it just because they highlight the inadequacy of language? Or is there more than that?

Reading this critique of Derrida made me think of it.
Quote:
...anyone who reads deconstructive texts with an open mind is likely to be struck by the same phenomena that initially surprised me: the low level of philosophical argumentation, the deliberate obscurantism of the prose, the wildly exaggerated claims, and the constant striving to give the appearance of profundity by making claims that seem paradoxical, but under analysis often turn out to be silly or trivial.


Can anyone work towards a definition of profundity within text?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 7,152 • Replies: 227
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Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 07:50 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
...they highlight the inadequacy of our present comprehension...if that is not profound I donĀ“t know what else can be profound...
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 10:55 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
Perhaps the profoundness of paradoxes is merely an expression of philosophical hubris?
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 11:07 pm
@Cyracuz,
I say this humbly and insecurely, but I suspect that most references to paradox--at least those that interest me--point to the profound inadequacy of language and logic for the direct understanding of human experience.
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 12:29 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

I say this humbly and insecurely, but I suspect that most references to paradox--at least those that interest me--point to the profound inadequacy of language and logic for the direct understanding of human experience.


agreed
but above this all , is the ability to Reason
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 03:37 am
@JLNobody,
...maybe you just mean to address the models of Logic developed so far, which I grant still are incomplete but Logic itself really ? You use it for any activity in your life starting with your heart beat and ending with the writings you do in this forum and the way we bring words together in sentences...it is an almost childish over simplification to attack Logic directly and not the model instead J !
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:05 am
@JLNobody,
I agree JL. I just think that feeling profound for that reason comes from a kind of arrogance that makes us believe so strongly in the merits of our tools. But perhaps saying that displays another kind of arrogance.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 10:31 pm
Being "reasonable" is a social virtue; being "logical" is something more limited and in these threads a form of aggression less than virtuous.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 10:56 pm
@JLNobody,
...every dumb person on this world certainly agrees with you here...
...logic is aggressive with dumb statements and bullshit pocket talk !
I would love to see what some of you guys would state under hypnosis regarding self imagery...that would make my day !
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 11:28 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:
Why are paradoxes considered profound?


Are they? I never considered them all that profound. Clever, yes. Amusing, certainly. But profound?
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 11:43 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
...every dumb person on this world certainly agrees with you here...


A very honest way to voice your agreement, fil. Good for you.

Quote:
...logic is aggressive with dumb statements and bullshit pocket talk !


After your excessive demonstrations of that fact, I believe you. Lead by example, isn't that what they say? Wink

Quote:
I would love to see what some of you guys would state under hypnosis regarding self imagery...that would make my day !


Yet another statement of yours that reveals just how far superior to anyone else you consider yourself to be. A very attractive attitude, I must say.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 08:46 am
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:

Quote:
...anyone who reads deconstructive texts with an open mind is likely to be struck by the same phenomena that initially surprised me: the low level of philosophical argumentation, the deliberate obscurantism of the prose, the wildly exaggerated claims, and the constant striving to give the appearance of profundity by making claims that seem paradoxical, but under analysis often turn out to be silly or trivial.


That about hits the nail on the head.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 11:02 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Thanks, you illustrate my point.
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2011 05:53 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Thanks, you illustrate my point.


Ha! Yeah.

0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2011 05:53 am
Can anyone work towards a definition of logic?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2011 06:53 am
@JLNobody,
Well I consider "agression" within parameters educative if not ill intended...
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2011 07:58 am
@The Pentacle Queen,
I think a definition of "logic" is a bit tricky.
Initially, it might seem that it is no more than a process of "correct reasoning". But to determine what is correct reasoning, we have to trust our motives, and we need to have a clear idea of our objective.
In most situations logic is applied on multiple levels simultaneously, both with choosing which aspects of a subject should be considered and with the actual consideration of those subjects. Therefore, there is bound to be a degree of intuition and subjective preference to the process of logical thinking.

Or, to say it in another way, how you approach a problem can decide how logic will be applied. Even deciding how to approach is often a matter of logic. But to apply logic we need to make choices, which also can be a matter of logic. But in most real life situations a purely logical approach isn't necessarily the best or logical choice.

Considering this, I am inclined to say that logic is a process of evaluating and acting on the information you have, making the choices that will ensure an outcome that is as close to your initial objective as you can manage. I would say that it is not a purely intellectual process. Not unless the subject logic is applied to is purely intellectual.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2011 10:11 am
@Cyracuz,
Wow! Congratulations on your courage. I would never attempt that.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2011 10:11 am
@Cyracuz,
The most I could say is that logical behavior is acknowleding rules designed to avoid contra-diction and non-sequiturs OR making statements accordng to rules that avoid my not looking stupid.
But I do NOT think that reasonable behavior is simply "following" the rules of logic (i.e., cookie-cutter thinking) as much as it is action that INCLUDES not violating the axioms of logic.
Oh, and the murkiest aspect of this subject matter is that logic is not unrelated to culture. Radically different cultures contain different axioms and "rules". But that is something we once approached with not much success.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2011 10:43 am
@JLNobody,
...the cultural aspect of logic is that it can be described as memory of dynamics, of relations, and in them the presence of Law, Dialectics...but then we have the memory of our ancestors in our blood telling our memory what to record...
 

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