God is not religion/Religion is not God

Been there myself, drowned and came back.

God doesn't have have an imagination. God is his imagination, his imagination is his essence. Our imagination is our essence.

I debated Richard Dawkins in thenakedscienceforum, just before he became moderator of the science forum in dissidentphilosophy he was no challenge at all.

That 's interesting. Will u tell us about it ??

In some respects, your thinking is similiar to my own.





David

There's a difference between winning a debate and being so obscure that you opponent disengages in disgust.

When one heeds only one's own side of a debate, it is most likely one will declare one's self the winner. Hands down.

That response is near violent
in its hatred & anger, Rosborne. Have u considered being polite ?





David

It was in a lake. I can't swim. A friend struggled to help me, but I almost drowned him. During The struggle I remember every detail. I kept thinking, is this it, am I going to die in this stupid lake in Kentucky? To thinking, this is it, I'm going to die in this stupid lake.
My friend finally broke loose from me, and had to push me away, to keep me from drowning him. He looked around for his options on what to do. Our boat was about twenty yards away. The safety seat cushion I had lost hold of in the first place was about the same distance away, In the opposite direction. He opted to swim for the cushion.
Alone now, everything went dark and I though, I'm going to die. I relaxed and felt a surge of water sweep past me as I seemed to sink deeper. This startled me, and I waved my hands for a second, trying to swim upwards. Then I thought, what's the use?, I'm going to die.
I found myself in total darkness. All I could sense was the presence of myself, with a huge smile, and the darkness, and I thought, wow, I'm dead. I paused and thought about it for a moment. Then I turned my head from side to side and saw nothing but darkness. I thought about that for a moment, then I thought, OK, what happens now?
As soon as I thought that, I started coming back to myself. I looked up, and I remember, I was straight up and down looking up, and could see the safety cushion floating on the surface of the water. My friend was pulling me up by my hair, as I reached for the cushion.
My friend told me when he returned to me, I was floating face down with my arms out, (the dead mans float), about a foot under the water. He said as soon as he got my hand about an inch from the cushion, I was on it. He said he didn't know how I did that.
Floating with my arms hung over the cushion, being a long haired stoner in the 70s, I couldn't see with my hair in my eyes. I thought, what the hell?, whats going on?, I know I'm dead, I remember dieing. I barely had the strength to reach up and push the hair out of my eyes.
I looked around and saw my friend swimming to the boat, the sun shining, the tree lined bank, and I thought, wow, I get another chance.
My friend, (his name is Denny by the way), said I was floating "the dead man's float"when he pulled me up by my hair. But from my perspective, I was straight up and down, looking up, a few feet under the water, where I remembered dieing.

David, ad hoc twaddle like

....is hardly worthy of a "courteous response".

There is a potential debate here concerning the separation of the concept of "religion" from that of "God", but the entry ticket for such a debate cannot be found in a cut-price box of mental candy.

David, twaddle like
I don 't agree with the quoted remark qua the Iron Age,
but it saddens me that some of us find it necessary to be impolite.





David

Lets explore this a little further.

Is it impolite for atheists (like Richard Harris) to accuse theists of complicity in the 9/11 attack because they gave general succor to a concept of "life after death." ?

Or would it be impolite for me to accuse you of complicity in murder bcause of your support for the Gun Lobby ?

Obviously these are rhetorical questions, but your "sadness at impoliteness" here seems pretty insignificant when compared to some of the real debates we engage in on this forum.

That 's interesting. Have u seen the series on the Bio. Channel
I Survived . . . Beyond and Back ?

My surgeon told me that I died twice during surgery in 2005.
I only remember awakening in the ICU,
but I have had several out-of-body experiences on-the-job in court,
while taking testimony from witnesses. I also recognize "the dark"
from my second out-of-body experience, a shared consciousnes experience.
This one was not in court, but in my cousin's kitchen,
when she informed me that my mother had passed on in the hospital.

If u had been there observing, u 'd have not thought that anything odd was in progress.
U 'd have seen me solemnly striding around the room, shaking hands
with each of my relatives, thanking each of them for his or her assistance
in my mother 's last months of human life, but when I got the news,
I felt what I intuitively deem to be the REAL ME,
to have been ejected upward, into darkness maybe c.30 feet up.
I saw myself and my relatives below me, in the thanking process.
I considered myself below to be only a shell of the real me.
This lasted for a few minutes.

I 've had a few other very brief out-of-body experiences; all unexpected.





David

I don't wish to be impolite, however, I don't see, by your story, when the water entered your lungs to constitute drowning, nor is there any reference to water being removed and respiration being restored.

"There's a difference between winning a debate and being so obscure that you opponent disengages in disgust".

I didn't say I won the debate, I said he was no challenge at all. He would take me point for point, and make smart ass remarks. I would take him point by point and prove his dumb ass remarks wrong. He told me that I was not qualified to debate my own theory on the creation of the universe in the science forum, because of my belief in God being the creator. WTF, really?
The moderator shut down my thread saying, " This is not a religious forum, it is a science forum". I Emailed the moderator and said, I am trying to focus the conversation on the science of my theory of creation, the are the ones that want to keep debating about God.

OK.

Not in MY opinion;
I disagree with that reasoning, but I don 't deem it rude.



Again, I deem that reasoning to be devoid of basis, but not rude. I don 't mind it.





That was not obvious to ME.



Well, u r free to deem politeness to be insignificant, if u wish, but I consider that to be sad & unfortunate.





David

What was it, sex court?

Richard Harris was an atheist?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Harris

No; I don 't know that court,
nor did any of them have any relation to sexuality.





David

I dunno, Izzy.
I have not taken much interest in him.

Well you shouldn't have been on the job then you dirty sod.