Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

@carloslebaron,

carloslebaron wrote:

You must show where in the bible slavery is "explicitly condoned" Lol

(Perhaps the bible you are using is a Chinese pirate version... ha ha ha)

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen." Leviticus 25:44ff

1 Reply

@carloslebaron,

carloslebaron wrote:

Well, if you want to understand what I said using such a twisted way of thinking from your part, then: so be it.

There was, there is, and there will not be something wrong with slavery as long as the slave is treated with dignity as a human being.

This is the what the bible clearly states in the Laws of God, and this is why Jesus did not went against slavery itself but against the abuses.

The biblical narration is also clear with the example of the Children of Israel in Egypt. No problems until a Pharaoh decided to hurt the Children of Israel.

Interesting sentence. Did you compose it yourself...or did you have help with it?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Yes, that is correct. And as stated before, slavery in the bible is accepted as long as the slave is treated with dignity.

1 Reply

@carloslebaron,

Freedom is a virtue, anything not moral is a slave.

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@Frank Apisa,

OK, so when you can't argue a point, then you play with the English grammar of the opponent... good for you...

Sadly, neither you nor anyone can state that the bible was on the wrong side about slavery.

And this is why Jesus didn't waste his time about this issue of slavery, but surely lots of people are wasting their lives trying to point something wrong about God. Lol.

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@MWal,

You are partially correct. In those biblical times people didn't have welfare nor social security benefits, so many men voluntarily became slaves in order to receive food and shelter. As you can see, in their case being free was no a virtue if they die in the middle of the street because no food to eat.

These slaves were treated with dignity, their integrity respected, and they had children and children for generations. We can't tell the same from OTHER CULTURES, where slaves were treated like animals, killed by any reason, can't even have a family and didn't last but their own generation.

The laws found in the Bible are the greater example of moral. And your opinion do not contradict the bible but it will make you contradict yourself if you think that slavery in Israel was similar to slavery happening in other cultures.

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@carloslebaron,

don't they dont sound like slaves at all.

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@carloslebaron,

they dont sound like slaves at all.

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Quote:

Frank Apisa said: "Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess...."(Leviticus 25:44ff)
Romeo countered with: "He that steals a man and sells him, or if he be found in his hands, he shall surely be put to death " (Exodus 21:16; Deut. 24:7)

So there we have two Old T verses, one saying it's okay to own slaves, and one saying it's not okay.
Anybody want to have a shot at explaining the seeming contradiction, or shall I ?.. Wink

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said: "Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess...."(Leviticus 25:44ff)
Romeo countered with: "He that steals a man and sells him, or if he be found in his hands, he shall surely be put to death " (Exodus 21:16; Deut. 24:7)

So there we have two Old T verses, one saying it's okay to own slaves, and one saying it's not okay.
Anybody want to have a shot at explaining the seeming contradiction, or shall I ?..

Actually, we have two Old Testament vesrses...one saying it is completely okay to own, buy, and sell slaves...and to keep them as chattels.

And we have another that may or may not have something to do with slavery....and if it does, it says you should not steal slaves, because they are property.

The contradiction is because you need something to pretend the god of the Bible wanted to condemn slavery.

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Quote:

Frank Apisa said to me: The contradiction is because you need something to pretend the god of the Bible wanted to condemn slavery.

Nice try mate, but no.. Smile

In World War 2, most nations put their prisoners to work under guard, such as farming, building and so on, but of course nobody thought of them as "slaves".
Likeise the Old Testament God okayed heathen POW's being put to work after being captured in wars, the only difference being that they were called slaves in those days.
If he was a nasty God he'd have simply said- "Kill the lot of 'em".. Smile

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said to me: The contradiction is because you need something to pretend the god of the Bible wanted to condemn slavery.

Nice try mate, but no..
In World War 2, most nations put their prisoners to work under guard, such as farming, building and so on, but of course nobody thought of them as "slaves".
Likeise the Old Testament God okayed heathen POW's being put to work after being captured in wars, the only difference being that they were called slaves in those days.
If he was a nasty God he'd have simply said- "Kill the lot of 'em"..

He was and is a nasty god, Romeo:

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you." Deuteronomy 20:10

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Quote:

Frank Apisa said: He was and is a nasty god, Romeo:
"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you." Deuteronomy 20:10

Pot, kettle!
In your Air Force days you were quite prepared to nuke entire russki cities including men, women, children and fluffy kittens!
God's not as ruthless as you in that verse, he at least gave them the choice of becoming POW's without a shot being fired.. Smile

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said: He was and is a nasty god, Romeo:
"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you." Deuteronomy 20:10

Pot, kettle!
In your Air Force days you were quite prepared to nuke entire russki cities including men, women, children and fluffy kittens!
God's not as ruthless as you in that verse, he at least gave them the choice of becoming POW's without a shot being fired..

Yeah, our Air Force CAN be very nasty.

Thank you for comparing your god to that crew! I got a laugh out of it.

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The Strategic Air Command badge shows a mailed fist clutching lightning bolts and olive branches, giving the symbolic message to tyrant regimes that you'll you'll get peace if you behave, and get your ass busted if you don't!
God says exactly the same thing.. Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/B-47_nose_zps5e3e0f3e.jpg~original

Sodom and Gomorrah getting it-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Sodom-and-Gomorrah_zps9c06a638.jpg~original

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

The Strategic Air Command badge shows a mailed fist clutching lightning bolts and olive branches, giving the symbolic message to tyrant regimes that you'll you'll get peace if you behave, and get your ass busted if you don't!
God says exactly the same thing..

Sodom and Gomorrah getting it-

You said if he were a nasty son-of-bitch god...he would say, "Kill the lot."

Here is a quote:

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you." Deuteronomy 20:10

Here is another:

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." [Deuteronomy 13:13-19]

The god IS a nasty son-of-a-bitch. Your god, Romeo...is a nasty son-of-a-bitch.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

The god IS a nasty son-of-a-bitch. Your god, Romeo...is a nasty son-of-a-bitch.

But you're just guessing that, right Frank? You really don't know, right? And that's because you haven't considered all the evidence in a proper light, right?

Because if you did, you would be able to reconcile the concept of a God of love with the god of this system.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
The god IS a nasty son-of-a-bitch. Your god, Romeo...is a nasty son-of-a-bitch.
But you're just guessing that, right Frank?

Hell no, I am not guessing, Neo. Romeo's god is the god described in the Bible...and that is one NASTY son-of-a-bitch.

Really.

Hey, the ancient Hebrews where the ones who thought the god up. It is almost certain they invented the god. And one thing they needed was a nasty god...a murderous, barbaric, jealous, vengeful, tyrannical, petty god...to protect themselves from the murderous, barbaric, jealous, vengeful, tyrannical, petty gods of their neighbors and enemies.

That is what they needed...that is what they got.

But thanks for asking.

Quote:

You really don't know, right?

Of course I know. I can read...and any reasonable reading of the Bible shows a very nasty god.

Quote:

And that's because you haven't considered all the evidence in a proper light, right?

Perhaps it is you who is looking at the evidence in a distorted way, Neo. You fear this loathsome god...and I can understand that, because the god is one nasty son-of-a-bitch. And you want to stay on its good side.

(It doesn't have a good side, Neo.)

Quote:

Because if you did, you would be able to reconcile the concept of a God of love with the god of this system.

I will grant that if I do what you do...fear the god...I could convince myself that it is not a nasty son-of-a-bitch. I could pretend...like the citizens of Iraq used to pretend that Saddam Hussein was a loving, kind, generous president when he was alive and capable of torturing or killing them.

But I would rather stick with common sense.

1 Reply

Quote:

Frank Apisa said: Your god, Romeo...is a nasty son-of-a-bitch.

Nah mate, think of him as a tough no-nonsense father figure who only zaps those who ask for it.. Smile

Right Al?
"Right, if somebody messes wid me, I'm a-gonna mess wid him!"- Al Capone

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/capone1.jpg~original

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said: Your god, Romeo...is a nasty son-of-a-bitch.

Nah mate, think of him as a tough no-nonsense father figure who only zaps those who ask for it..
Right Al?
"Right, if somebody messes wid me, I'm a-gonna mess wid him!"- Al Capone

He is a nasty son-of-a-bitch...who makes the likes of Al Capone or Saddam Hussein seem relatively benign, Romeo.

Just about everything indicates that the god was invented that way...to be nasty.

The god's inventors succeeded.

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Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

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